Big Digital Energy

0:00 All right. Well, the boys are back in town. Got everyone back in the studio for BDE this week. Chuck and I got to go to Exxon's campus last week and get the tour. No one would tell me where

0:13 Darren Wood's office was, unfortunately. We walked right under it. We walked right under it and they pointed to it. Didn't they really? I think you relocated them. So they're that's not as real

0:23 off. Well, that's what no one actually knows officially. They don't know officially where it's real offices. They think it's that corner. I can answer right. I can text a guy and get an answer

0:32 right now. Let's see it. All right. Prove it. I could too, but

0:38 I I want want to to know know exactly exactly where where his his office office is is and and Darren Daren needs needs to to come come on on the the podcast podcast. But But now now it's it's really

0:42 really cool cool.. We We got got to to they they're only walked us broadcasting broadcasting live live At at DDE DDE and and we're we're asking asking where where Darren Daren Woods Woods's is

0:49 office office. Kirk's Kirk's using using his his voice voice to to his voice voice to to text text. You You know know what what I've I've realized realized about about voice voice to to text text?

0:56 There's There's this this very very bi-modal bimodal distribution distribution of of ages ages that that use use voice to to text text you you either either seven seven years years old old or or

1:00 you're your 40 40 plus plus damn damn dude dude Wow Wow, you you don't don't use use it it. no No like like no no one one by might no No one one in in between between. I'm I'm scared scared of of

1:09 that. what What do do you you do on do? I'm up like like fast fast. yeah Yeah, you you thumb thumb fast fast well Well, what's what's funny funny is is like like my my little little kids kids use

1:14 use it it use use a your voice voice. it's It's only only not not calling calling you you guys guys old old, but but it's it's only only weighted Weighted towards towards older older people people

1:20 and and like like really really young young kids kids.

1:24 I I don't Don't use use it it that that scares scares me me because cuz I I look look down down talking talking about about, you you know know the Texans somebody got an Asshole asshole and you you

1:30 look look down down and it just like typed So it out I wow so I was was one one of of the the actually actually a a quick quick answer answer top top of of one one of of the the energy energy

1:38 buildings buildings. oh whoa so So exactly exactly that narrows narrows that narrows it it down down. yeah top alone I I had had heard heard that that they they were were moving moving from from a a

1:47 very very secluded secluded, very very exclusive exclusive part part of of the the campus campus to to something something more more Six six floor floor,, bro bro.. Nailed Nailed it it. six

1:55 floor. Well Well,, we we walked walked under under and and they they were were pointing pointing.. Yeah Yeah.. That's about I it. I mean mean,, that that building's building is one one of of

1:60 six six toys toys or or so so.. So So I I actually actually sent sent this this to to a a buddy buddy of of mine mine who's who's a pretty pretty senior senior, senior dude dude over over there

2:06 there.. I I said said,, in In all all seriousness seriousness,, for for all all the the perception perception of of old old stodgy Stodgy Exxon Exxon,, really really cool cool vibe vibe out

2:11 out there there,. Love love the the energy energy of of the the young young folks folks., The the technology technology we we got got to to see see was was unbelievable unbelievable.. So So

2:17 count count me me as as a a fan fan.. I'm I'm an an Exxon Exxon fan fan. Yeah, no. All. All right right., This is a, this this is is a a good good Exxon Exxon exact exact for for you you.

2:25 LOL LOL, which I. guess only people over 40 probably used. They moved Which it I guess only people over 40 probably used They moved it because because it it was was in in sniper sniper view view,.

2:34 I I can't can't say say this this specific specific building building.. Oh Okay, okay,. Yeah yeah. See. See,, see a a good good employee employee's. He's gonna gonna not not give give out

2:39 out the the details details. If if I I asked asked some some other other people people to to be be like like,, Oh oh,, it's it's exactly exactly here here. Yeah Yeah,, the they're rumor is,

2:45 protecting They pointed to where they they said they pointed to her that they thought thought his his office office was was in and the the rumor rumor that that it it has has all all bulletproof

2:51 bulletproof glass glass and and he's He's got got it an on underground her ground. tunnel tunnel parking parking with an with an elevator elevator that that takes takes him them up up to to the the

2:58 office office.. He's Batman. Yeah. It's Batman He's Batman. Yeah. Being Being CEO CEO of of Exxon excellence is much much different different than being being CEO CEO of of visual digital wall

3:04 wall catters catters.

3:07 Go They'll get get the the fucking fucking don't don't get get the the bat Batcave cave.. They They said said he's he's got got a a gym gym cafeteria cafeteria in in his his office office. Yeah

3:13 Yeah,, you you don't don't even even get get front front row row parking parking because because everyone everyone takes takes it it before before you you get get here here.. Oh Oh, dude, dude.

3:17 Yeah, man. What am I doing with my life?

3:21 But But no no, it's, it's really really cool cool. We've We've got got to to walk walk through through their their remote remote operating operating center center. Let's Let's tell tell them him

3:27 mark mark this this earlier earlier before before we we got got on on the the podcast podcast,. But but, uh, You you know know, the the guy guy that that runs runs the the room room, long

3:32 long-time time company company man, man, on on these these deep deep-water water drill drill ships ships And and I I think think they're they're running running six six deep-water deep water drill

3:37 drill ships ships around around the the world world and and he's he's got got this this room room and and it's it's a a big big command command station station in in one one corner corner and you you

3:43 got got NOV NOV over over there there. He he got got another another command command station station. It's it's Halliburton Halliburton. The the other other one's one's Baker Baker and and he's

3:48 he's essentially essentially assembled assembled all all of of his his will will fill fill service service vendors vendors just just like like you you would would on on a a deepwater deepwater rig rig.

3:53 and And anyways anyways, with with the the click click of of a a button button, I I mean mean, they're they're steering steering the the drill drill bit bit. And I I mean mean, not not clicking

3:59 clicking a a button button and and sending sending an an email email and and saying saying, hey hey, turn turn the the bit bit. then And then they're they're actually actually controlling

4:04 controlling the the operations operations all all around around the the world world from from this this room room. so So it it was was very very cool cool to to see see that that and and said said,

4:11 hey Hey, let let me me come come to to a a podcast podcast here here They. they said said they they won't won't let let them them. So so all all I I can can do do is get are the best. Well, are

4:15 they they controlling controlling you you right right now now? yeah Yeah, but but for for all all our our for all our bitching bitching about about the the energy energy business business and and

4:22 not not collaborating collaborating, it it was was cool cool seeing seeing all all the the different different service service companies companies in in one one spot spot, sharing sharing

4:30 information information, best best practices practices. I I felt felt a a lot lot better better about about the the industry industry, actually actually. Chuck Chuck, You you don't don't ditch do

4:35 about about the the energy energy industry industry. and The the energy energy industry industry built built you you bro, bro. Yeah Yeah,, exactly well. Well,, there's there's always always -

4:40 your You're, your you're defender in a defender, it but. There's there's this this weird weird economy dichotomy,, though though,, because because we we talk talk, like like you you see see

4:44 this this, We we always always talk talk about about like like the the industry industry, not not collaborating collaborating, you're you're sharing sharing information information,, but but then

4:48 then you you get get on on deep deep water water. You Get get on on an actual rig actually. Yeah., it It happens happens all all kinds kinds of of collaboration collaboration. Yeah,. Yeah, it

4:54 it happens happens on on rigs rigs, it It happens happens on on the the field field. and And so so it's it's just just weird. That's really that's really weird weird. Water water,. it's It's

4:59 amazing amazing.. This is This is just just a a lot lot more more comfortable comfortable environment Environment.. Yeah Yeah., Nice nice chairs chairs, nice nice screens screens, dark dark

5:05 room room. Yeah. Yeah Yeah., Nice nice break break area area. You're not I sitting under mean full Candles handles. So yeah, I mean, look. Nice and candles pour pour up up a a bottle bottle

5:14 of of wine wine and and you you can can collaborate collaborate. Speaking speaking of of collaboration collaboration and and and you're you're, and and you're you're now now your your favorite

5:18 favorite company company, ex on ExxonMobil mobile, They they just just bought bought 120 120, 000, 000 acres acres in in Arkansas Arkansas and and they're they're doing doing lithium lithium

5:26 mining mining. Oh Oh,, really really?? Yeah. Yeah Yeah., Yeah. I I mean mean. We We talked talked about about that that acquisition acquisition,, but but had had they they started started

5:34 it's its production public today today. I I don't don't know know if if they they started started production production, but, but they they're - just be taught. We talked about about it on on PDE

5:38 BDE a a couple couple months months ago ago,. That's right but. But I I love love it it because because,, you you know know,, it's it's funny funny.. I I gave gave a a,, so so what what was

5:46 was I I talking talking to to? Is? It was it in New New Mexico Mexico?. Oh Oh,, at at the the Carlsbad Carls bed., Carlsbad, Carl's bad mayor Mayard Energy energy Convention convention or or

5:52 something something like like that that.. It's It's like 2000 like 2, 000 people people.. And And anyways anyways,, it's it's up up there there talking talking and and they it don't really

5:57 really gave give me me much much direction direction. I I want want to to talk talk about about.. So So I I talked talked about about everything everything.. Talked about Lithium lithium.. So

6:02 So they've they've had had truck Chuck speak speak before before. Yeah. That's Talked about about lithium lithium extraction extraction from from Brian Brian. and And like like, I'd I'd like like

6:08 three three people people come come up up to to me me and and super super interested interested about about that that.. Like Like,, Hey hey,, what what are are we we going gonna to learn learn

6:13 more more about about that that?? And And now now you you see see Exxon Exxon starting starting to to make make these these moves moves.. And And essentially essentially what what they're they're

6:17 doing doing is is,, you you know know,, when when I I first first started started thinking thinking about about the the idea idea, it was was a a few few years years ago ago,, I I saw saw this

6:21 this company company called called Lilac Lilac Solutions Solutions, and and they'd they'd vented been at this this technology technology to to strip strip lithium lithium out out of of Brian brine

6:27 water water.. And And they they were were partnering partnering up up with with like like, geothermal geothermal plants plants out out in in Nevada Nevada in in California California. And And I I

6:35 was was thinking thinking about about it it as as like like, oil oil and and gas gas produces produces it. a shit shit ton ton of of brine brine water water. It's is like like,, is is there there

6:40 lithium lithium in in that that brine brine?? And And probably probably, I'm I'm not not a a geologist geologist,, but but it it seems seems like like there's there's higher higher concentrations

6:45 concentrations of lithium lithium in and plays plays like like to the smack smackover over and and, you you know know,, that that that area area compared compared to to places places like like West

6:52 West Texas Texas., but But, you you know know,, think think Exxon Exxon,, you you go go take take up up these these big big leaseholds lease holds and and then then deploy deploy some some of

6:58 this of this new new technology technology to to strip strip that that lithium lithium.. Yeah Yeah,, we we talked talked about about the the lithium lithium concentrations concentrations, as that

7:03 I I recall recall., I I don't don't don't remember remember the the actual actual benchmarks benchmarks for for,, you you know know,, sweet sweet spot spot in in terms terms of of work lithium

7:10 in concentration concentration, but. But it it was was pretty pretty high high in in the the spectrum spectrum of of things things that that have have been been considered considered for for -. Who

7:18 Who do do we we know know that's that's got got some some info info on on that that on on? A the mining mining company company?? I I could can get get some some people people.. Well Well,, in

7:23 in my my short short time time that that I I worked worked for for one one of of the the largest largest mining mining companies companies -, The six six weeks weeks. you put in this. The six weeks,

7:30 I I learned learned a a lot lot. At. First first, I I was was like like,, you you show show up up,, I'm I'm like like,, hey Hey,, where's where's the the lithium lithium?? And And it's

7:33 it's like like gold gold,, you you know know, like, like, and, and you you strike strike gold gold,. And and you're you're like like,, it's it's everywhere everywhere.. What What I I

7:37 realized realized is is., hey Hey,, see see that that entire entire mountain mountain? We we get get about about one one battery battery out out of of that that. We're we're going gonna to

7:43 remove remove this this entire entire mountain. mountain and And there's there's a a bunch bunch of of other other shit shit in in there there,, but but we we get get some some with little things

7:47 up a - I really important see point because you know there's these charts people post on Twitter all the time and it shows the amount that of. actually brings up a really important point because

7:52 there's these charts people post on Twitter all the time. And it shows the amount of Materials materials that that we we have have to to mine mine and and oil oil and and gas gas is is always always

8:02 like sky sky high high on on the the chart chart and and the the amount amount of of lithium lithium and and metals metals is is small small. But But what what it it is is an an account account for

8:08 for is is all all that that oil oil and and gas gas comes comes from from the a small small well-head wellhead,, right right?? Well Oh,, hold hold this this big big, lithium Lithium and and

8:13 metals metals,, you you have have to to move move all all of of this this dirt dirt to to get get a a little little amount amount. And. So so they they never never take take into into

8:19 consideration consideration the the - Mark Mark Mills Mills does does a a nice nice job job on on the the volume volume moved moved.. Yeah Yeah, that's, that's a 500 yeah. That's 500,, 000 000

8:27 pounds pounds of of stuff stuff to to ultimately ultimately get get to to 1 a thousand, 000 pound pound Tesla Tesla battery battery.. Yeah Yeah,, and and it's 500 you, and 500, 000 000 counts

8:33 out counts out to doing it, 1, 000. 500 a thousand five hundred thousand, 000 to to 1, 000. So a thousand that So that includes includes overburden overburden., you know. You know You, you

8:38 got got to dig to dig up up a a lot lot of of stuff stuff together together.. That's That's actually actually pretty pretty damn damn good good 'cause 'cause we we were were discussing discussing

8:42 direct direct air air capture capture and and what's what's the the magnitude magnitude there there,, Mark Mark?? 2 2,, 500 500 to to one one,, 2 2,, 500 500 to to one one.. I I mean mean,

8:49 if, if you you think think about about air air,, it's it's 004 004,, which which is is 0000 0000 for for CO2 CO2.,

8:57 right Right,? so So you're you're moving moving 2 2,, 500 500 units units of of air air to to capture capture one one unit unit of of CO2. CO2. But But we we have have a a trivia trivia question

9:03 question sponsored sponsored by by, who's who's your responsible sponsor for this this week week?? Chili's Chili's.. Chili's Chili's. responsible Sponsor by for Joe what the Presidentes

9:09 president is.. And And Brinkers Brinkers,, but but Chuck Chuck,, what's what's the the trivia trivia question question?? You You had had a a trivia trivia question question for for the the

9:15 audience audience, and and maybe maybe we'd we'd hear hear an an answer answer.. Actually Actually, this, this is is a a game game.. This This is is what what we're we're gonna gonna do do..

9:22 This This is is a a game game.. I I want want all all the the experts experts to to come come out out today today and and tell tell us us exactly exactly what what is is the the right right amount

9:29 amount of of CO2 CO2 to to have have in in the the atmosphere atmosphere and and what what it it will will lead lead to to if if we we have have that that, and and we'll we'll just just see see who's

9:35 who's right right in in 50 50 years years. because Because if if you you have have too to. much, right Right Chuck Chuck, you, you grow grow a a lot lot of of shit shit,, right right?? Well

9:41 Wait,, were you you listen listening. And if to me you on my conversation? And if you have have too too little little everything everything freezes freezes.. I'll I'm try trying not not to to,

9:45 but.. Because 'Cause we we're were talking talking about about this this..

9:49 But But yeah yeah,, it it was was.. And And I I think think it it was was the the next next one one.. I I was was like like,, if if you you,, today today we we had had the the technology

9:56 technology,, we'd we'd harness harness the the technology technology to to control control the the concentration concentration of of CO2 CO2 in in the the atmosphere atmosphere.. What What is is

10:03 the the perfect perfect amount amount of of CO2? CO2? Because Because you you got got to to think think,, I'm I'm sure sure Putin Putin with would love love for for Russian Russia, you thought

10:11 thought out out. Warm. Warm water water port port.. Yeah Yeah,. damn. David David Ramsey Ramsey would Wood would love love Canada Canada to to be be five five degrees degrees warmer warmer..

10:17 But But you you think think about about all all that that. There's? There's a a reason reason we we haven't haven't invaded invaded Canada Canada yet yet.. Think Think about about all all the the

10:21 resources resources that that Russia Russia would would be be able able to to unlock unlock.. But But your your whole whole point point is is,, is who who makes makes the the call call if if we we

10:28 have have the the technology technology,, right right?? I'm I'm like like,, we we don't don't even even know know the the technology technology.. Yeah So. So go go ahead ahead and and make

10:33 make your your guess guess on on how much how CO2 much CO2 should should be be there there. and and what what it'll it'll lead lead and and we'll we'll come come back back and and fit put put it it

10:38 in in the the time time capsule capsule, come come back back. Love it. 50 50 years years,, winter winter gets gets the the El President president and and Margarita margarita from from Chili's

10:45 chilis.. But But it's it's not not even even in in the the time time capsule capsule,. it's It's in in Collide collide pro Pro.. Right. There There we we go go.. All All we we have have is is

10:52 an an anterociser juster tip tip,, which which is is in in some some respects respects, a a time time capsule capsule.. What is What is Collide collide Pro pro?? Clyde Collide Pro pro,. let

10:58 Let me me just just tell tell you you about about Clyde Collide Pro pro..

11:01 It It used used to to be be called called something something else else,, but but this this is is actually actually amazing amazing. All All I I have have to to do do is is get get on on Collide

11:05 Clyde Pro pro and and type type in in like, you know, what's what's the the appropriate appropriate amount amount of of CO2 CO2 in in the the atmosphere atmosphere.? And And it'll it'll pull pull

11:13 up up today's today's episode episode. It's a cool today's. Today's episode episode. And. And not not only only will will it give give me me today's today's episode episode,, it it'll will give

11:17 give me me the the exact exact where where in in the the episode episode. and It'll it'll actually actually have have the the script script transcript transcript there there and and highlight

11:22 highlighted it of of any any time time you you see it too. That's kind of bad for us see to it look forward for like. Like any any predictions predictions that that we we give give,. we We got

11:27 gotta to think think that that these these things things can can be be indexed indexed and and looked looked up up. Dude Dude,, I I had had a a shovel chevron and engineer engineer bust bust my my

11:32 balls balls a a week week and and a a half half ago ago on on this this exact exact topic topic.. He's like, don't Don't you you guys guys remember remember when when you you guys guys that again?

11:38 gave predictions predictions on on oil oil prices prices?. I I was was like like, yeah, yeah,, we we didn't didn't pull pull that that shit shit up up,. but But with with Clyde Clyde Pro pro,,

11:44 we we could could do do that that.. And We we should should do do that that.. We We should should score card ourselves do it. We. could scorecard ourselves. Yeah Yeah,, we we got got a a look

11:48 look.. I I mean mean,, we should we, we should should make make it it like like every every quarter quarter.. We We should should make make a a prediction prediction.. And Remember remember

11:57 when when we we were were, when we were doing doing each each European European country country,, let's let's once once a a quarter quarter,, we'll we'll do do our our predictions predictions..

12:03 And And then then that that way way they're they're on on the the record record. Yeah Yeah.. And And then then we we can can, we can have have a a bet bet on on the the line line.. So So I I

12:10 know know we've we've been been. Not President, Day. Mark March, period. I I know know we've we've been been all all disjointed disjointed here here jumping jumping around around.. The The one

12:16 one thing thing I I'll do do want wanna to circle circle back back with with,, 'cause because Mark Mark,, you you and and I I have have talked talked about about this this,, 'cause because I I

12:21 think think this this is is interesting interesting and. And this this'll will be be a a prediction prediction that that we we can can go go back back and and look look at at.. I I think think

12:26 actually actually mining mining is is a a core core competency competency to to oil oil and and gas gas companies companies. And And so so if if you you think think strategic strategic fits fits

12:35 going going forward forward, as as much much as as they eat. the ESG ESG crowd crowd would would hate hate that that, investors investors may may not not react react favorably favorably.. I I

12:44 mean mean,, if if you you are are a a really really good good oil oil and and gas gas company company, being being able able to to then then go go extract extract with with them them,, then then

12:50 to to be be able able to to go go and in potential potential mine mine,. same Same kind kind of of core core skill skill set set.. I I mean mean,, who who else else is is going going to to do do

12:59 it it?? Microsoft Microsoft Google Google?? I mean Yeah,. Apple Apple,? It's it's the the energy energy mining mining companies companies that that have have the the technical technical

13:05 ability ability The oil and And guess gases is extractive extractive, each each well well bore bore is is a a mini mini mine mine,, right right? Yeah?, And so exactly,. Who who better better

13:11 equipped equipped to to understand understand extraction extraction in in really really bad bad places places?? Yeah, from From a a harsh harsh environment environment,, political political

13:19 nuance nuance,, you you know know, a, tremendous tremendous amount amount of of issues issues in in places places like like democratic Republic of Congo Democratic, Republic of Congo, as as has

13:30 has been been pointed pointed out out recently recently with with Cobalt cobalt route red,, etc etc.. Just Just the the magnitude magnitude of of the the increase increase. in and critical

13:38 critical minerals minerals extraction extraction,. and And now now the the hypertension hypertension on on doing doing it it more more responsibly responsibly,, I I think think is is going going

13:47 to to necessarily necessarily involve involve those this companies companies who've who've been been extracting extracting things things for for 150 150 years years.. We We have have the DRC. The

13:51 the DRC DRC is responsible extractors on. We have the most the responsible extractors on the planet planet.. I I mean mean,, the the DRC DRC and and then then also also Arkansas Arkansas, as as

13:58 ExxonMobil's ExxonMobil is fighting finding out out.. In In fact fact,, Dan Dan Amman Amman,, the the head head of of Exxon's Exxon's low low carbon carbon solutions solutions business business

14:04 quotes quotes, We're We're drilling drilling wells wells 10 10,, 000 000 feet feet underground underground into into these these saltwater saltwater reservoirs reservoirs.. That's That's

14:09 obviously obviously directly directly in in our our wheelhouse wheelhouse and and capability capability set set.. He's He's talking talking about about the the lithium lithium mining mining.. I I

14:13 mean mean, that's, that's exactly exactly what what they they do do.. Well Well, what's, what's cool cool about about it it is is I I love love it it because because to to Chuck's Chuck's point

14:18 point,, you know, people people that that are are EV EV out out of of the the kits kits in in the the name name of of fighting fighting climate climate change change and and big big bad bad oil oil.,

14:29 now Now you you got gotta to get get your your lithium lithium from from big big bad bad oil oil. So So I I love love the the irony irony..

14:36 And And you you got got to to do do it it here here too too.. I mean, if we're going going to to be be intellectually intellectually honest honest about about this this,. We we need need to to do

14:41 do it it in in the the United United States States.. You You can't can't just just export export the the problems problems.. And And that's that's,, that's that's, that's what what I'm not even

14:47 I'm. exporting. It's It's not not even even exporting exporting the the problems problems.. It's It's a a matter matter of of national national security security and and energy energy security

14:52 security. I. I mean mean,, do do you you want want all all your your lithium lithium coming coming from from supply supply chains chains that that are are owned owned by by China China and and

14:59 being being able able to to secure secure our our own own resource resource and and our our own own source source of of lithium lithium is is pretty pretty critical critical.. Yeah Yeah., And we

15:07 we don't don't have have a a lot lot. Like. Like right right now now,, as as far far as as we we know know,, we we don't don't have have a a lot lot of of metal metal resources resources in the

15:14 United States in. So the, you United know, States. So, you know, we're we're rich rich and and coal coal and and oil oil and and gas gas. and, But but we we don't don't have have huge huge

15:22 metal metal deposits deposits.. So So we we have have the the salt Salton and sea Sea in in California California. Yeah Yeah., There's there's a a big big cup cup of of mines mines up up in in

15:28 Yukon Yukon.. Yeah Yeah., That's that's where where I I mean mean,, that's that's why why,, you you know know,, what's what's the the big big deposits deposits in in Vermont Vermont,, I I

15:34 think think? there's Yeah, there's some some up up like like in in the the North north. There East. There was a main story story about about a a couple couple that that have have a a pretty pretty

15:41 significant significant lithium lithium deposit deposit,, but but there's there's a a lot lot of of immediate immediate and and quite quite

15:48 strident strident opposition opposition that that getting getting a a mine mind - Somebody established in in North East - Established in Maine Maine, I I think think would be would well beyond the be

15:54 well beyond the span span of of my my remaining remaining lifetime lifetime.. Right Right, and. There there was was a a project project that that a a publicly publicly traded traded company

16:01 company and and I'm I'm blanking blanking on on the the name name,, tried tried to to get get permitted permitted for for the the last last 15 15 years years in in North North Carolina Carolina and

16:06 and instead instead they they gave gave up up and and are are pursuing pursuing a a mine mind in in the the Congo Congo because because they they thought thought it it would would be be politically

16:12 politically easier easier.. Yeah Yeah,, the the, you know, the Exxon excellent thing's thing is interesting interesting to to me me 'cause because I I haven't haven't seen seen anything anything

16:18 on on this this.. I I don't don't know know if if y'all y'all have have,, but but I I don't don't know know if if they're they're partnering partnering with with Lilac Lilac Solutions Solutions to

16:23 to deploy deploy their their technology technology or or if if they've they've developed developed their their own own internal internal technology technology to to strip strip that that lithium

16:28 lithium out out,, but but, you you know know Lilac's, I like SPACT backed by by, um. Chris Chris Sock Sock as is fun fun lower, low road carbon carbon ventures ventures, and and actually

16:35 actually knew no who invested invested in in it it was was a Coley coley from from Crusoe Crusoe., he's He's one one of of their their angel angel investors investors,.

16:42 because 'Cause when when I I brought brought up up lithium lithium mining mining like, like three three years years ago ago,, Colley's Coley's eyes eyes lit lit up up., He's he's like like,,

16:47 he's like no, no one one else else is is talking talking about about that that.. He's He's like like,, me me and and my my dad dad are are buying buying up up,. you You know know, these,

16:51 these, these assets assets and and they they invested invested in in lilac lilac.. And And so so I mentioned, I'm I mentioned it if interested if Exxon Exxon is is going going to to deploy deploy

16:60 that that third third party party technology technology or or if if they've they've developed developed some some process process on on their their own own. I I saw saw a a lot lot of of those those

17:06 business business plans plans kind of over kind of over the the last last 18 18 months months,, two two years years of of people people having having a a technology technology.. So So I'm I'm not

17:13 not sure sure it's it's that that proprietary proprietary,, but but who who knows knows?? Yeah What, what you you won't won't see see is is Exxon Exxon jumping jumping out out of of a a head head

17:23 of of commercial commercial viability viability at at scale scale and and committing committing capital capital because because of of the the returns returns risk risk. to To any any of of that that.

17:29 Yeah, some I'm say saying it's it's material material,, they're they're. their position position,, right right?? So So they they have something, they have have their their hands hands around

17:34 around something something that that they think they they think think. And it's, and it's that's a a, it's a great great adjacent adjacency. to what their core business is. Yeah. But you know

17:43 what's interesting is and see what their core business is. Yeah, but you know what's interesting is like like no no one one was was talking talking about about this this just just a a couple couple

17:46 of years years ago ago.. And And so so,, you you know know,, what what other other types types of of resources resources are are out out there there that that we we can can find find. I. I

17:52 mean mean,, no no one one was was looking looking at at Arkansas Arkansas out out of of all all places places as as being being some some big big lithium lithium deposit deposit.. So So are are

17:58 there there other other places places that that we we can can find find high high lithium lithium concentration concentration as as well well and and extract extract it it.. So other Other places

18:05 places that that aren't aren't in in California California. Exactly Exactly.. You You know know,, I love what what I I love love about about., Here's here's what what I I love love about about

18:12 like, like the the future future of of energy energy is still still subsurface subsurface.. So So whether whether it's it's lithium lithium,, hydrogen hydrogen,, just just CCUS CCUS,,

18:21 geothermal geothermal,, and and it's it's like like oil oil and and gas gas.. We've We've extracted extracted all all this this oil oil and and gas gas and and we've we've,, you you know know,

18:29 essentially, put CO2 essentially put CO2 in in the the atmosphere atmosphere.. Now we'll we'll capture capture that that CO2 CO2 and and we'll we'll charge charge to to inject inject it it. and

18:35 And then then we'll we'll drill drill geothermal geothermal wells wells like it's a circular circular economy economy, that but oil oil and and gas gas companies companies just just never never die

18:42 die.. We We just just figure figure out out new new ways ways to to

18:45 recycle recycle and and reuse reuse.. So So I I find find that that and and I I think think like like,, you you know know,, I I was was talking talking about about that that, that exon Exxon,

18:52 it's is like like exon's Exxon's really really whole whole poised poised to to take take advantage advantage of of all all of of these these things things.. So So anyways anyways,, the the lithium

18:58 lithium is is super super exciting exciting. I mean,. I mean, I I think think that that that's that's obviously obviously is is dependent dependent on on geology geology, but, but I I think

19:05 think that that that that trend trend is is going going to to continue continue. Plus Plus, it it just just cleans cleans up up a a waste waste stream stream.. I mean, you're injecting. I mean I,

19:11 mean, you're injecting, I mean, it's it's still still nasty nasty salt salt,, brine brine water water, but, but at at the the end end of of the the day day, you're, you're taking taking some

19:16 some bad bad stuff stuff out out of of it it.. So Yeah yeah,. yeah. This This next next story story actually actually kind kind of bummed me out of bummed me out. Who's Who's up up marker marker

19:24 you you up up on on new new scale scale.? And And yeah yeah,, there there was was a a pretty pretty. important important announcement announcement last last week week about by new new scale scale

19:34 and and the the Utah Utah Associated Associated Minister Municipal Power power System system. I decided decided not not to to proceed proceed with with the the small small modular modular reactor

19:42 reactor project project that that was was actually actually going going to to be be located located in in Idaho Idaho,, I I think think adjacent adjacent to to a a research research facility

19:48 facility,, but but it it was was going going to to serve serve, I don't know how how many many are are in in that that system system.. But new scale stock was But off new 42 scale stock was off

19:55 42 last last week week.. Pretty Pretty big big setback setback for for,, I I think think,, SMR SMR progress progress,, at at least least from from a a headline headline standpoint standpoint,

20:04 You you know know,, inciting inciting some some of of the the old old familiar familiar factors factors that that we've we've seen seen in an offshore offshore wind win with with things things like

20:10 like inflation inflation,, supply supply chain chain,, cost cost overruns overruns, et, etc cetera.. And And so so I I think think, I think these these utility utility commissions commissions

20:17 are are looking looking at at at this this environment environment and and seeing seeing what what, what kind kind of of rate rate increases increases are are going going to to be be needed needed to

20:26 to support support investment investment and in operation operation and and saying saying,, look look,, we we just just can't can't politically politically go go to to the rate base, to the rate

20:34 base or the the rate rate payers payers with with continued continued escalation escalation. in in rates rates of of pricing pricing,, so so.. It'd It'd be be great great to to see see a an

20:42 non-normalized on a normalized basis basis,, like like what's what's the the cost cost per per megawatt megawatt hour hour of of these these projects projects?? Like Like the the small small

20:48 modular modular reactor reactor,, nuclear nuclear,, the the offshore offshore wind wind.. We We don't don't really really,, like like no no one one really really reports reports -. You've

20:55 You've got got the the - To - try The to tried normalize of the -. You've You've got got the the Lazard Lazard,,

20:60 what what do do they they call call it it?? The The L-O-C-E L-O-C-E, where where they've they've supposedly supposedly - - Levelized Levelized cost cost is is energy energy. With. With energy

21:06 energy, yeah, yeah. And And Demberg Dunberg did did a a piece piece a a couple couple of of weeks weeks ago ago on on just just all all the the problems problems of of,, well well,, it it

21:12 doesn't doesn't,, it it talks talks about about when when it it can can deliver deliver power power over over time time,, not not necessarily necessarily where where you you need need it it.. So

21:19 So you you get get into into the the reliability reliability type type issue issue and and the the various various other other problems problems. It It also also does doesn't an account encounter.

21:27 for if we're gonna build or if we're gonna build a a whole whole lot lot of of solar solar,, it's it's gonna gonna happen happen in in Texas Texas and and West West Texas Texas and and how how are

21:31 are we we gonna gonna get get into into Houston Houston?? Right Right.. I Ie., the the transmission transmission, the, other other costs costs and and so stuff so. So,, especially

21:37 especially the the footnotes footnotes. to to that that report report are are longer longer than than the the actual actual report report itself itself for for it it,. But but yeah yeah,, this

21:45 this kind kind of of bummed bummed me me out out because 'cause when - But they they don't don't do do that that for for,. I I mean mean,, we we have have hubs hubs for for gas gas.. Oil Oil is

21:50 is reported reported on on a, I mean, on a a per per barrel barrel,, but but that that is is also also regional regional, to to some some degree degree,, right right?? I I mean mean,, we we

21:59 have have Brent Brent., You you get get a a bottle bottle of of barrel barrel, barrel oil oil anywhere anywhere in in the the world world for for a a buck buck,. I mean I mean,, you know, for

22:05 for the the most most part part, two, two bucks bucks,, whatever whatever,. because 'Cause we've we've got got all all the the infrastructure infrastructure to to do do it it.. I I mean mean,,

22:10 this this, this new new power power generation generation's is gonna going to be be brand brand new new lines lines that that haven't haven't even even been been permitted permitted today today,,

22:16 much much less less built built.. I I did did think think one one element element,, you you mentioned mentioned the the Doomburg Doomburg piece piece, it's, It's called called fission fission

22:24 chips chips and, and it's it's really really centered centered or or anchored anchored on on the the notion notion that that, you know, the the explosion explosion in in data data center center

22:30 demand demand and and chip chip manufacturing manufacturing.. Somebody Somebody tweeted tweeted out out a a big big construction construction site site in in Sherman Sherman,, Texas Texas,, and

22:37 and it's it's quietly quietly becoming becoming. I a guess a chip chip manufacturing manufacturing hub hub.,

22:42 But but basically basically saying saying that that because because the the extreme extreme reliability reliability that's that's required required and and the the scale scale and and the the cost

22:51 cost, that that, you know, tech tech will will get get this this done done politically politically, despite despite opposition opposition from from environmental environmental activists activists,

23:00 and and they they cited cited a a few few of of the the well-known well-known activist activist groups groups because because it's it's their their absolute absolute future future. And. And so so

23:08 there's there's so so much much political political clout clout on on the the side side of of tech tech that that basically basically I I think think what what they they were were just just suggesting

23:14 suggesting that that it's it's just just going to get steamrolled. going to get steamrolled Step. Step back back, set, set up up the the story story for for me me about about vision vision..

23:21 Well Well,, it it was was basically basically centered centered on on the the fact fact that that nuclear nuclear is is going going to to have have to to be be a a key part of of satisfying

23:29 satisfying demand demand. And And there's there's just just so so much much ambient ambient momentum momentum behind behind chip chip manufacturing manufacturing and and data data centers centers

23:38 that it's It's actually actually just just going going to to steamroll steamroll things things over over the the long long run run.. Well Well,, what's what's interesting interesting is is Texas

23:43 Texas is is actually actually being being seen seen as as a a harbinger harbinger of of the the future future because because usually usually electricity electricity does does increase increase..

23:52 People People need need more more and and more more electricity electricity,, but but usually usually it's it's offset offset by by efficiency efficiency gains gains. Like. We've we've come come

23:58 with with more more efficient efficient things things like like our our iPhones iPhones are usually use less less power power.. Let Let me me throw throw the the stat stat at at you you real real

24:03 quick quick. It's It's 1950 to 2000 1950 to 2000, power power usage usage in in America America up up almost almost 15x 15x because because we we came came up up with with all all this this cool

24:12 cool stuff stuff to to do do with with power power, lighting. Lighting,, computers computers,, washers washers and and dryers dryers,, refrigerators refrigerators,, air air conditioning

24:17 conditioning.. 2000 to 2000 to basically basically today today,, it's it's been been flat flat. to To your your point point, Lighting lighting has has gotten gotten so so incredibly incredibly

24:26 efficient efficient.. ACs have gotten so incredibly efficient Using ACs have gotten so incredibly efficient. Even computers computers,, we're we're using using 10x 10x the the power power in in

24:33 data data centers centers over over the the last last decade decade,, but but only only using using about about 10 10 more power. more power to to power power those those because because the the

24:39 machines machines have have gotten gotten way way more more efficient efficient and and all all that that shit shit ends ends today today.. I I mean mean,, basically basically, the the machines

24:45 machines are are as as efficient efficient as as they're they're going gonna to get get.. Well Well,, that's that's actually actually not not true true.. Like I I was was gonna going to have

24:52 have a a talking talking point point is is you're you're gonna going to see see,, you know, it's it's just just like like Bitcoin Bitcoin mining mining. Bitcoin Bitcoin mining mining went went

24:59 from from operating operating on on CPUs CPUs to to GPUs GPUs to to ASICs ASICs. You're You're gonna going to see see the the same same thing thing happen happen with with machine machine learning

25:06 learning is is like like I've I've already already seen seen a a couple couple of of tech tech companies companies that that are are working working on on new new ASICs ASICs that that form form

25:11 specific specific operations operations within within generative generative AI AI.. And And so so they they become become more more efficient efficient.. And And so so I I think think you're going

25:17 you're gonna to see see some some pretty pretty big big efficiency efficiency gains gains in in the the actual actual machines machines through through the the use use of of ASICs ASICs moving moving

25:23 from from GPUs to GPUs to ASICs ASICs over over time time.. But but I I still still think think that's it's just just the the volume volume. Well of, everything everything in in life life's is an

25:31 an S S curve curve to to some some degree degree.. And And we yeah, definitely definitely,, definitely definitely 2000 2000 to to today today was was a a steep steep part part. of the the S S

25:38 curve curve and and whether whether we we got got more more steepness steepness.. I'm I'm thinking thinking we're we're flattening flattening out out.. You You think think we we got got more more

25:44 steepness steepness. The. The shit's hitting shit's the hitting the fan fan.. That's That's the the point point.. There's There's no no more more hiding hiding behind behind these these big big,,

25:50 huge huge efficiency efficiency gains gains.. We We need need more more power power.. Well Well, whatever, that's that why we're we're having having brown, Brown out out. I It's more mean,

25:55 what interesting interesting in in the the US US.. over over the the last last decade decade., Sales sales or or energy energy consumption consumption grew grew 5 5.. Texas grew 25. Texas grew

26:06 Yeah 25.. And And what's what's interesting interesting is is,, and and they're they're like like,, well well,, is is this this a a harbinger harbinger? why Why Texas Texas with with a a few

26:11 few reasons reasons?? One One,, you you have have things things that that we we know know about about Tesla Tesla Gigafactory Gigafactory turned turned on on,. The the largest largest

26:17 all-electric all-electric LNG LNG facilities facilities on on the the Texas Texas Gulf Gulf Coast Coast,,

26:22 Bitcoin Bitcoin mining mining. But but as as we're we're reshoring reshoring manufacturing manufacturing., as as data data center center,, as as we've we've talked talked and and talked talked

26:30 and and talked talked about about data data centers centers,, we we don't don't have have enough enough., They're they're already already tapping tapping out out., But but we're we're trying

26:36 trying to to electrify electrify everything everything.. And And so so Texas Texas is is actually actually struggling struggling because because we we, our are energy energy consumption consumption

26:43 is is going going through through the the roof roof.. Just Just a a little little, kind of how how big big is is this this stuff stuff in in terms terms of of increments increments to to demand

26:51 demand?. I I think think one one of of the the statistics statistics that that was was cited cited in in the the Fish Fish and and Chips Chips article article was was that that the the data data

26:58 center centers is currently currently under under development development,. correct Correct,. would Would consume consume all all of of the the output output of of Diablo Diablo Canyon Canyon,,

27:04 which which supplies supplies 20 20 of of California's California's electricity electricity.. That's That's just just what's what's under under development development now now.. I I mean mean,,

27:11 what what did did Adam Adam say say to to Eve Eve, the the first first time time they they were were together together?? You You better better back back up up, we. We don't don't know know how

27:18 how big big this this thing's thing's going gonna to get get..

27:22 You You know know,, when when we, we, I I don't don't know if know if you you were were on on this this episode episode.. It It might might've have just just been been me me and and Chuck Chuck,,

27:28 but but we we read read off off some some - Sponsor of them. Parts are by by Adam Adam and and Eve Eve.. We Indeed.

27:35 We have have to to get get used used to to saying saying these these things things. Thanks People. were fighting us to sponsor the show, man. I'm just trying We're fighting to us to get sponsor

27:42 the show, man. I'm just trying to get your your head head around around it it.. Go Go ahead ahead,, Colin Colin.. Anyways Anyways, we, we talked talked on on this this one one episode

27:46 episode,, just just kind kind of of ran ran through through a a short short list list of of some some of of the the battery battery plants plants that that were were being being built built in in

27:52 the the United United States States,, the the chip chip plants plants,, you know, talking talking,, going going back back to to the the lithium lithium conversation conversation,, talking

27:57 talking about about security security of of supply supply chains chains and and diversification diversification and and supply supply chains chains.. It's It's the the same same thing thing with

28:03 with chips chips.. We We don't don't want want to be dependent on China to be dependent and on China and Taiwan Taiwan to to produce produce our our chips chips.. And And so so the the chips chips

28:11 act act is was, was passed passed to to incentivize incentivize these these companies companies with with these these chip chip plants plants here here.. And And guess guess what what?? They're

28:16 They're going going to to co-locate co-locate with with reliable reliable energy energy assets assets.. You know I, I keep keep seeing seeing like like Elon Elon promoting promoting this this

28:24 narrative narrative on on Twitter Twitter. and and other other people people that that 100 100 miles miles by by 100 100 miles miles of of solar solar panels panels will will power power the the

28:32 entire entire United United States States.. And And everyone's everyone's like like,, oh oh my my gosh gosh, Why why don't don't we we just just build build a 100 hundred? square square miles

28:38 miles of of solar solar panels panels?. But But he he always always leaves leaves out out the the battery battery capacity capacity needed needed to to make make sure sure that that it's it's

28:46 reliable reliable,, the the transmission transmission.. I I mean mean,, it's it's, and Elon's Elon's smarter smarter than than this this.. He He knows knows these these things things.. And

28:54 And he he did did make make a a secondary secondary comment comment to to that that. He's He's like like,, he's he's like like,, we we need need battery battery capacity capacity, of, of course

28:58 course.. We'll We'll go go like like,, yeah yeah, that's, that's a a big big, - But but the that's a big headlines, the headlines, the headlines. They're headline. He's also also talking

29:02 talking his his book book., so. Yeah Yeah,. Yeah. the The headline headlines is are a headline headline, though though.. Yeah Yeah.. So So, um, anyways anyways,, I I think think what's

29:09 what's been been interesting interesting,, call call of it the the last last 10 10 years years, is is whether whether people people know know this this or or not not,, big big tech tech has has

29:17 been been a a huge huge driver driver of of the the energy energy makeup makeup in the in the United United States States,, Google Google,, Amazon Amazon,, Microsoft Microsoft,, because

29:27 because what what they're they're doing doing is is they they go go get get these big these big power power purchase purchase agreements agreements for for their their data data centers centers, and

29:32 and they they tell tell the the utilities utilities, hey hey, this this has has to to be be 100 100 clean clean, renewable renewable power power.. So now the utility has has to to go go source

29:39 source that

29:42 that power. And so these big tech companies are driving energy infrastructure, whether it's intentional power or. And not so these big tech companies are, driving energy infrastructure. Whether

29:53 they're it's intentional saying or not, they're saying, I I need need five 5 gigawatts gigawatts of of power power,, I it better better be be clean clean,, and and it it has has second second

29:59 and, third-order third order effects effects.. And And what's what's happening happening today today that that hasn't hasn't happened happened in in the the past past,, 'cause because you're

30:04 you're absolutely absolutely right right with with what's what's been been going going on on,, is is big big tech's techs now now being being told told no no.. Like Like Dominion Dominion that

30:10 that services services Virginia Virginia,, 'cause because a a lot lot of of people people want want their their data data centers centers and around around Washington Washington,, DC DC, is now

30:15 telling people, We can't provide you the power. And that's the big crisis thing that, is now telling people, we can't provide you the power. And that's the big crisis thing that is is happening

30:23 happening right right now now, that that I I don't don't know know. the that Silicon Silicon Valley Valley appreciates appreciates. Yeah. I mean, the the upper upper echelons echelons I mean, do.

30:31 I mean, you're you've seen seen out that of a with Bitcoin Bitcoin mining mining in in Texas Texas.. I I mean mean,, people people are are very very adverse adverse to to Bitcoin Bitcoin mining

30:37 mining and and having having these these data centers. data centers similar and thing., you You know know,, maybe maybe there's there's some some element element of of like like,, oh oh,,

30:43 you're you're, you're mining mining fake fake internet internet mining mining,, but but computer's computer's a a computer computer at at the the end end of of the the day day.. Who Who cares

30:49 cares if if it's it's mining mining Bitcoin Bitcoin, if or if it's it's processing processing generative generative AI AI?? And And so so people, if if you you see see people people in in Texas

30:56 Texas bitching bitching about about that that, complaining complaining about about it it, you're going, you're gonna to see see it it in in other other parts parts of of the the country country as

30:60 as well well. And That's that's why why we're we're seeing seeing Microsoft Microsoft has has come out and come out and has has put put out out press press releases releases and and alluding alluding

31:08 to to embedding embedding nuclear nuclear power power into into their their data data centers centers.. And And I I think think we're we're gonna going to see see more more of of those those.. So

31:16 So I've I've said had a a big big tech tech turns turns in in energy energy companies companies.. Yeah Yeah,, well well,, and and I've I've told told you you,, I I don't don't know know if

31:22 I've told you to this if. I've told you to. I've I've told told Colin Colin this this.. I've gone I've gone on on Twitter Twitter into into the the direct direct messages messages to to Mark Mark

31:29 Andreessen Andreessen of of Andreessen Andreessen Horowitz Horowitz and and just just acted acted like like we're we're best best friends friends.. Hey Hey, man man,, this this is a is a big big

31:33 problem problem.. We've We got got to to throw throw a a party party and and get get this this together together and and we we need need to to go go to to tell tell your audience. You can look at

31:36 Chuck's tax. He has a your audience. You can look at Chuck's text. He has a running running like like 30 30 texts texts,. bro Oh,. Oh, it's it's just his page a mark. Mark is not on answering

31:41 answering.. It's Hey, so like you you need need to to get get your your Silicon Silicon Valley Valley VC VC guys guys together together and and I'll I'll get get Texas Texas private private equity

31:48 equity together together,, energy energy PE PE and and we'll we'll get get together together and and solve solve this this. 'Cause 'cause in in all all seriousness seriousness,, I I would would

31:54 say say we we need need to to do do that that Mark Mark Andreessen Andreessen.. I'm I'm in in favor favor of of tell tell your your odd I'd,, but but they they need need to to do do that that

32:02 'cause 'cause we we need need their their political political clout clout that that you you alluded alluded to to earlier earlier,, but but I I don't don't think think the the existing existing

32:08 utility utility infrastructure infrastructure that that generates generates the the power power is is gonna gonna be be able able to to solve solve this this problem problem.. I I do do think think

32:14 you're you're gonna gonna need need private private capital capital sources sources that that can can be be more more entrepreneurial entrepreneurial.. And And that's that's not not a a huge huge,

32:20 huge group of folks these days I mean, you've got some., huge group of folks these days. I mean, you've got some PE P e that that does does power power generation generation,, but but I I think

32:28 think it's it's gonna going to be be the the Texas Texas private private equity equity guys guys that that did did the the shale shale revolution revolution, yeah to, solve solve this this power

32:34 power problem problem I. We know it also truly. believe I truly believe that that talking talking my my own own book book,, I I guess guess,, but but I I think think the the thing thing that's

32:40 that's interesting interesting to to me me is is the the co-location co-location of of these these data data centers centers and and chip chip manufacturers manufacturers with with energy energy

32:45 assets assets, because because now now you you can can kind kind of of, you can kind of mitigate mitigate the the quote quote unquote unquote transmission transmission problem because it's just like

32:54 Bitcoin mining, you know, everyone's always used this term like Bitcoin has a battery and it doesn't really make sense problem from, a like physics because it's perspective just like Bitcoin mining,

33:02 you know, everyone's always used this term, like, Bitcoin has a battery, and it doesn't really make sense from a, like, this perspective, but, but like like from from a a theoretical

33:03 theoretical perspective perspective, I, I understand understand what what they're they're saying saying. and And it's it's,, you you know know,, you you can can take take,, let's let's say

33:08 say it's it's flared flared gas gas, and and you you can can convert convert that that flared flared gas gas to to electricity electricity, and and you you can can create create a a Bitcoin Bitcoin

33:15 from from it it.. And And so so you you took took something something that that was was waste waste,, created created something something about about you you., now Now you you can can transfer

33:19 transfer that that value value anywhere anywhere around around the the world world.. Same Same thing thing will will happen happen with with these these GPS. GPUs use in and data data centers

33:25 centers for for gender dinner to to bay bay.. I I you you have have a a geothermal geothermal assets assets that's that's out out in in the the middle middle of of nowhere nowhere.. And And you

33:31 you don't don't have have any any like like you're you're not not able able to to transmit transmit that that power power anywhere anywhere if if you you build build it it.. But But if if you you

33:35 build build it it and and you you co-locate co-located it with with one one of of these these big big data data centers centers.. Now Now you you can can create create something something of of

33:40 value value from from that that energy energy, and and then then you you can can transmit transmit that that that value value through through.. Absolutely Absolutely. I mean., because Because

33:47 the the the keyboard keyboard can can be be in in Houston Houston, Texas, Texas, in in that that room room and and at at Exxon Exxon,. right? It It doesn't doesn't have have to to be be there

33:53 there. It. can be. I I mean mean,, one one of of the the first first deals deals I I haven't haven't invested invested in in in an energy energy was was in in 2010 2010. that That was was there

33:59 there, taking building building micro micro turbines turbines for for flare flare gas gas. specifically Specifically to to generate generate energy energy, Yeah. The the power power of of the the

34:07 community community or or whatever whatever.. But Yeah. People people have have been been thinking thinking about about this this for for a a long long time time. It's. It's just just really

34:12 really hard hard to to execute execute and and especially especially when when you're you're in in remote remote places places.. Yeah Yeah.. But But circling circling back back on on - But But

34:19 that's God a shame. Go ahead. let Let me me add add on on to to that that but. But that's that's changing changing because because one one problem problem,, and and I I mean mean,, this this is

34:24 is a a very very recent recent problem problem.. We're We're talking talking like like last last five five to to 10 10 years years was was bandwidth bandwidth and and latency latency issues issues,,

34:33 being able to transmit data. and And that's that's not not a a problem problem anymore anymore,, especially especially with with Starlink Starlink coming out. coming out. That's good one. Just

34:38 Just fucking fucking opens opens up up the the opportunity opportunity to to be be able able to operate to operate these these data data centers centers and and really really remote remote locations

34:45 locations. and And, you You know know, that that, that's that's, I I just just think think that that we're we're seeing seeing a a few few different different things things happen happen where

34:53 where it's it's enabling enabling us us to to do do these these things things. If If I I could could get get the the data data, but, but to to circle circle back back on on Dominion Dominion energy

34:58 energy,, which which is is the the primary primary utility utility for for Virginia Virginia, they've They've, since since 2019 2019,. they've They've connected connected 75 75 new new data data

35:08 centers centers. This year alone, their They're this year alone their energy energy consumption consumption is is up up 7 7 and and they're they're forecasting forecasting that that energy energy

35:16 demand demand will grow by will 85 grow by 85 over over the the next next 15 15 years years. I I mean mean, this, this is is a a gigantic gigantic issue issue.. I I know know that's that's why

35:23 why John John Arnold Arnold and and Michael Michael Skelly Skelly, Yeah, who who I I admire admire in in a a big big way way is is grid Grid united United, Which which is is to to try try to to

35:30 kind kind of of build build the the grid grid that that connects connects. that Yeah, they they have have a a really really interesting interesting thesis thesis that that they're they're that

35:35 they're executing executing on on. I I enjoyed enjoyed getting getting to to hear hear what what they they're were working working on on. You you know know, it's it's funny funny, just just this

35:39 this is super random is super random, but but just just talking talking about about data data centers centers being being built built up up there there in and Ohio Ohio, Google Google has has some

35:45 some pretty pretty big big data data center center operations operations It's it's actually actually funny funny, one one of of my my good good friends friends from from down down here here, he's

35:51 he's a a petroleum petroleum engineer engineer, drilling drilling engineer engineer, and and I I think think he's he's a drilling drilling engineer engineer from for BHP BHP, and and moved moved up

35:59 up to to Ohio Ohio to to help help manage manage their their data data centers centers. and And so so you you see see big big tech tech taking taking one oil like and gas gas talent talent to to go

36:07 go operate operate these these large large data data centers centers so 'cause the at the end end of of the the day day, it's is surface surface infrastructure infrastructure. Yeah yeah, so so this

36:13 is yeah so this is kind kind of of crazy crazy The the, I'm i'm the the oldest oldest four four boys boys, the the fifth fifth Yates Yates brother brother is is, is as is uh zane Zane ball Ball,

36:23 who who we we went went to to rice rice with with, great great dude dude, went went to to Intel intel right right after after you you got got his his phd PhD. He's been been there there ever ever

36:28 since since building building uh building chips chips. he He now now listens listens to to the the podcast podcast because because he's he's in in charge charge of of energy energy efficiency

36:35 efficiency for for us hostile. And and he's he's like like, Hey Hey,, I I listened listened to to you you guys guys because because I I got got to to figure figure it it out out.. They They just

36:40 just worked worked on on a a,, on a on a, I, I think think,, I I don't don't,, I I think think this this is is public public.. It's It's been been announced announced that that they they

36:45 worked worked with with Shell Shell on on an an immersion immersion cooling cooling.. Yeah Yeah., Technology technology, because because obviously obviously that's that's a a big big deal deal..

36:51 I I think think we're we're actually actually talking talking to to Shell Shell about about coming coming out out to some Empower power to to

36:56 talk talk about about what what they're they're doing doing with with that that immersion immersion cooling cooling.. But But,, you you know know,, Intel Intel, I, I think think they they

36:59 since since receded receded with with this this plan plan,, but but they they were were coming coming out out with with ASICS for Bitcoin mining ASICS for Bitcoin mining. And And I I think think

37:07 they they stopped stopped that that program program just just because because the the downturn downturn of of Bitcoin Bitcoin mining mining.. But But yeah yeah,, I I mean mean,, again again,,

37:13 I I want want to to show show some some time time and and talk to talk to manufacturing manufacturing. Yeah Yeah,, one one last last thing thing while while we're we're on on nuke. nuclear, then

37:20 then we we can, we can jump can jump someplace someplace else else,, but but I'll I'll give give a a shout shout out out, because because I've I've only only listened listened to to two two

37:26 episodes episodes,, but but I I can can tell tell the the rest rest of of them them are are going going to to be be good good. MIT MIT educated educated scientist scientist,, Brett Brett Kugelmas,

37:33 Kugelmoss, decided decided he he wanted wanted to to learn learn about about nuclear nuclear because because he he really really scared scared a a climate climate change change.. He he thinks

37:38 thinks the the world's world's going gonna to end end.. And And he he went went around around and and started started a a podcast podcast called called Titans Titans and and Nuclear Nuclear,,

37:45 where where he he just just went went around around and and talked talked to to all all the the folks folks that that had had been been working working on on nuclear nuclear. And and he he didn't

37:49 didn't think think anyone anyone would would talk talk to to him him. And and everybody's everybody's like like,, you you want wanna to talk talk about about nuclear nuclear?? Sure Sure., Come

37:53 come on on.. No No doubt doubt they've they've been been starved starved.. Yeah, no one's Yeah. talking to us. So So anyway anyway,, I've I've started started listening listening to to it it.

37:59 And and the the first first one one I I listened listened to to made made a a really really interesting interesting point point that that I I don't don't think think I I appreciate appreciate the the

38:06 whole whole cost cost of of nuclear nuclear is is driven driven by by the the ability ability to to replicate replicate what what you you do do.. So So if if you you go go in in and, you you build

38:13 build one one, true true economy economies is of scale scale., The the second second one one is is half half the the price price., The the third third one's one's half half the the price price of

38:18 of that that. And. so to some degree, if we're gonna be doing nuclear in the United States, we may just have to pick some. Pick A standard. Pick A standard, that's it and everybody, let's go.

38:30 And that's just saying thought experiment is Someone asked us the other day on Twitter and I've been thinking about this a lot. It's like shit Energy be a part of central planning. And if you look

38:42 at nuclear, like there's a really good kit, like we're gonna subsidize any energy. We should be subsidizing nuclear in my opinion. And if you look at like the productivity, and I'm not gonna

38:55 laugh at me for this, but I always think about to my video game days as a kid on the computer playing Command and Conquer Generals, the first thing that you had to do was you had to build power

39:02 plants before you could build anything Right, I mean, everything is downstream of energy, right? So our ability to be productive as a nation is dependent on our ability to have reliable and secure

39:17 energy. And so you guys think that there's ever a case where it makes sense to have, you know, subsidized nuclear that is part of central, central. When you mean - That's where central planning -

39:30 Yeah, sounds like the whole of your abortion man. Come out of DOE or - Well, that's the thing, these -

39:38 I assume it's at a Fed level. DOE and DoD are funding stuff that we don't know about. So this is happening, and I mean, so I think that in regards to central planning, less is more as far as I'm

39:54 concerned, but I do think this is already happening. If you have a compelling technology, you're probably gonna call the DoD and the DoD 'cause the DoD, the

40:03 Department of Defense, needs remote power and storage. And they'll pay, I mean, there's anything that's interesting, remotely interesting, they're gonna give you money to do something. And the

40:15 DoD has a great track record over a decade of running nuclear subs. And aircraft carriers. Yeah, someone on Twitter is like, Hey, how come we can't just park some nuclear subs off of the coast?

40:26 And just plug a man. Well, there's a good follow-up. We don't like people knowing where they are. That's kind of the issue there. Just decide, just do it You like to keep those things in. If

40:35 you follow Bob Kuntz. on Twitter, he's a former nuclear sub commander. He's got a methodology in an organization called the High Reliability Organization. And one of the things that resonated with

40:52 me when I met Bob a few years ago was

40:59 the extreme discipline

41:06 and attention to detail and the tightness of managing a nuclear reactor underwater and on an aircraft carrier. All people are shooting at you. Right, gives you

41:20 a very secure and reliable process and mechanism in people that are trained to do that very, very well because the consequences of an accident which we've not had any in the nuclear naval fleet Um,

41:36 yeah, I think speaks

41:38 pretty positively about what's possible with these small reactors. You know, we know how to do it. And Colin, to your point, I mean, Richard Nixon, who created the Environmental Protection

41:49 Agency, despite being the conservative Republican at all, actually had 8, 000 nukes across the United States plan. Now, none of them got built, but he actually laid that out, what you were

42:02 talking about. Yeah, sounds better. You kinda went with the way - In just my opinion, like I would have mined it, regular energy was subsidized, 'cause it's like, it's extremely reliable energy

42:11 dense, like baseload, but I don't like subsidizing renewables. What's funny is back when, back in my Dell, our shell ventures days, this, I get some deal, and it's like some entrepreneur calls

42:25 me, he's like, it's nuclear, it's a nuclear deal. And I was like, ah, that's a good hedge for shell, because oil and gas comes just like, every single one of you talk to any other venture

42:34 groups, like, we don't do nuclear. We can't do nuclear. You can't hedge because that might disrupt your entire oil and gas business, but I was like, well, that's why you make a bet, in case it

42:45 actually becomes something. Yeah, in case it does something. But I call it, it's a Silicon Valley team, which I'm already suspect. Yeah. And they're like, you gotta sign in to you, it's a top

42:54 secret, I can't even tell you anything about what we're doing, I'm like, oh, let me guess. It's so amazing, you're gonna be able to commercialize the technology in a day. Nuclear takes forever,

43:04 because it's so hard to do, there's so many constraints that the physics alone are actually astronomically difficult. So, I don't know what happened to that company, they might have raised a lot

43:15 of money, but anyone that comes to me talking about a technology, I'm like, no one's gonna steal your idea. Well, it's not even like - You have to put this into play and show that I can reliably

43:26 and safely produce energy. I'm gonna hear a funny story, when I raise the seat around for digital wall cutters, I get invited to this angel group in Houston, And I mean, this group cuts like

43:38 maybe 25 K checks collectively. And anyways, they had three startups. I was the second one to pitch and so I'm sitting there listening to the first one. And it was this guy pitching a nuclear

43:48 fusion startup and he's looking to raise a 300, 000 seed. And I'm like, texting the guy at the angel group. I'm like, dog, you need fucking 300 million minimum. Get a start of a nuclear fusion,

43:58 not 300 K. The fuck are you doing here? At least in my time. So make fun of the secretary of energy I love this, which all of y'all want to say. There was a ribbon cutting at the heirloom project

44:15 in California, which is a thousand tonne a year, a direct air capture. And immediately the, the,

44:25 I guess the rules of thumb around kind of what all that means and, and trying to think about scale and impact was, The junket, the air travel in her entourage to go make that ceremony in California

44:44 would require four months of the almost four months of the capture of this facility. Now, this is admittedly a small-scale facility, but as we were talking earlier, we were looking at, you know,

44:56 2, 500 units of air to capture one unit of CO2, right? It gives you an idea of

45:05 what reality is, I guess, and Mike Umbro tweeted out

45:12 some statistics on renewables and direct air capture, I think, that you had commented on as well, Kurt. And you're the roundtable expert here. I mean, I'd love for a direct air capture apologist

45:27 to come on our show because it's not even, you don't even need to get to the micro, the macro economic view of direct air capture is ridiculous. ridiculous. It takes so much energy to capture air

45:43 and it doesn't make any scientific physical sense to

45:50 me. It doesn't. Economically doesn't make sense. So I'm not sure how this industry even became an industry because it reminds me a lot of algae. You know how much algae you need? I mean, how

45:59 much algae? You probably looked at this back in the days. Yeah, I got an ex-on-mobile. I actually had a venture capitalist come in when I was on the buy side come in talking about this. And I

46:12 looked at just the acreage and kind of the yield of the technology they were promoting at that time. And it was, you start doing the numbers on making any kind of dent in even US gasoline

46:25 consumption. And it's just ridiculous. It's like first order principles here. We're going to take air and we're going to find CO2 in that air, which is very small. I think based upon the stats

46:38 that I sent you for commercial air travel and emissions that for this particular this heirloom project, you would need 900, 000 of those facilities worldwide. It's crazy. To offset what commercial

46:53 air travel, which I believe is low single digit percentages of total global CO2 emissions So yeah, air travel, which makes up low single digit of total CO2 emissions, and you need 900, 000 of

47:08 these facilities that are getting a ton of press. You can check my work, but it's getting a ton of press You. know,

47:16 I'm kind of, I'm torn on it a little bit, and let me tell you why, because technologies are built and refined over decades, you know, it's funny that we're talking about nuclear subs at someone

47:27 come on my show that, um, let's build this, uh,

47:33 electrolyzer that uses plasmud associate H2S molecules and create a hydrogen. And guess where he learned all about electrolysis was from submarines, this time in the Navy on nuclear subs. And Rami

47:46 threw the historical context of where we're at today with the technology. And I mean, this started back like in the 50s. And like, it was very, I mean, this guy had down the order of sequential

47:57 order of steps that got us to where we're at today. And so I always struggle with this a bit because you look at direct air capture and yeah, it doesn't make any fucking sense. But also, I'm

48:08 always supposed to have any technological breakthroughs in evolution and the technology, if we're not deploying in actually trying to build it, right? So. You used an important word there and

48:20 that's evolution. I think all of a sudden in the last decade, we've

48:27 somewhat shifted to this notion that everything has to occur at revolutionary pace and for technology like this. for a small modular nuclear, et cetera, et cetera, it doesn't move naturally at

48:40 that pace. And so while all of a sudden are we able to flip the switch and revolutionize very complex technologies, not to mention the difficult economic proposition, I think it's more of looking

48:55 at the, what's the problem here? What's the, let's look at the problem, not the solution. We're talking about the solution, which is direct air capture. Do we have a problem with air? No,

49:08 it's actually, when you kind of look at it, it's an, it blows your mind how our human bodies work and there's air that somehow got created, whether you believe in Big Bang, I don't believe

49:19 there's probably higher order, whatever. 40 of CO2 emissions comes from heavy industry, cement manufacturing, steel manufacturing, chemical manufacturing, they produce a lot of waste. And we've

49:34 solved acid rain. There's ways to take really bad shit that we create and do something with it. We have scrubbers, we have membrane technology. There's ways to take bad stuff. But what direct air

49:48 capture, the premise is, Hey, there's nothing wrong with the air, but let's take shit out of it. I'm like, You're making up a problem that doesn't exist. In my opinion, there's a much bigger

50:02 challenge that is I'm not attacking the lowest hanging fruit first. Another guy that I was just talking about with this new electrolyzer, he's like, Yeah, the way that we're actually looking at it

50:14 is with IRA,

50:16 with a subsidy that comes with that, if we co-locate with renewable assets, produce hydrogen, and then that hydrogen's a feedstock for steel. Instead of hydrocarbons, you can carbonize steel

50:33 production, are huge contributors to CO2. And so you look at like the effort to the reward and there's actual path to economics at work as well. And so, you know, that's more the take that I

50:48 would have is that you should probably lower hanging fruit that can be addressed first. Now, let's get rid of the straws. Well, it all comes back at least in direct air capture in CO2, it comes

50:60 back to Chuck's question What is the optimal level of CO2? Anyway, we don't even know that. Something I talk about all the time is like, people forget that we're still coming out of an ice age.

51:14 And there's a case that maybe - Not enough CO2, according to Mark. And maybe we'll - No, maybe there's a case that, hey, maybe the world's a lot better place with no ice around the earth, you

51:24 know? Yeah, sure, you pull the bears and shit die, but - But we have a lot of great and damn food growing. And a lot more people, probably. I think the hotter the climate, the more

51:36 reproduction happens, right? Look, this is, I mean, this is fat. This is fat that humans, by far, have an easier time living in warmer climates than cold climates. You go look at, I remember

51:48 last winter up in Wyoming, you know, my friend had that huge blizzard come through, and I mean, it's like negative 50, 60 degrees Fahrenheit, whatever the temperature is, and they could not

51:58 keep their ginsets running on their drilling rig, the diesel-cut, jelling up. You know how that problem, you know, when it's warm. So humans are very good at living in warm climates, and we

52:14 really struggle in productivity, decreases substantially in cold weather climates. So,

52:22 you know, I think that - So you're advocating for a little bit of global warming? No, I think that we could use some more global warming and CO2 in the atmosphere. I don't think that we're at peak

52:32 optimal.

52:37 level yet, which that's a very like, that'd be a hot take. A lot more lithium ion batteries are gonna blow up as a guitar. This is also true. Yeah, so, you know, I think it's funny 'cause like

52:47 depending on the get people in Boston, like, oh, we couldn't even keep ice at our ice rink. This one are people like, there's no snow up in the mountains, like people associate that with like

53:01 one, something that

53:04 they have the right to have. You don't have the right to have snow or ice. There's been plenty of times through history where there's been no ice on, you know, the material amount of ice on the

53:15 planet. I need ice, bro. I need ice. Go back to the time of the dinosaurs. I mean, this entire fucking planet was tropical and on fire. Well, the, I mean, the peak, Mount Everest, like up

53:30 at the top, the, the. the rocks you're dealing with are limestone that were subsea floor. I mean, you know, we have changed climates without man being around. I mean, we have five ice ages

53:44 that are documented, right? That's why I always laugh. It's like people like, oh, climate and I are like, how can you deny that there's a climate? Like, doesn't make sense. There is. By the

53:52 way, I want to circle back to change some of the record. We talked about the tech companies driving the, when they put up a data center, they go to the local utility and say that, hey, it needs

54:06 to be a hundred percent. Well, I don't know the actual percentage, but many of those are offsets. They actually do not generate local, renewable energy next to the data center, and that's a huge

54:20 issue. It's financial engineering. It's totally financial engineering. There's so much fraud and grit and carbon credit, marketplaces right now. For those, all of us in Texas that are on a

54:24 retailer,

54:31 and that we're buying 100 clean energy, that's fake too. Someone sent me a startup deal that they were looking at investing that was like a carbon credits marketplace rewards for shopping and I was

54:44 like, I looked at it. I was like, let's get through it. And I was like, tell me one thing. I was like, there's so much fucking grift and fraud in carbon marketplaces that I wouldn't touch any

54:56 single company over there. I don't care what they're doing But yeah, so that's a very important point. This is all financial engineering. It's not actually physical. You're getting it straight

55:08 from, straight from the wind turbine.

55:11 We had some big news over the weekend, non-energy related. Maybe it's very energy related. We had two big events. One is the Aggies. What happened over there, man? Ooh. The Jim Bow Fisher era

55:25 is over with a nice, How much money was that? Speaking of money, dude. How much money did you - Well, the buyout was the rest. How much did you give to the buyout? The buyout was the rest of

55:35 the contract, which was about 77 million in change. And what percentage was Marx donation? It about the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere.

55:48 Yeah, that was a little surprising that they waited a week and they trounced Mississippi State at home, but I guess that was part of the process over the ensuing week after the loss at Ole Miss on

56:04 the preceding Saturday. You wanna go early enough so you can get your choice at coach. I mean, that, right. 'Cause I mean, they're gonna go to a bowl game, aren't they? That's right. Yeah,

56:14 and what this allows is, I understand there's a special transfer portal window that opens up. Right. And there was one four star that has,

56:32 has announced that he's transferring, but this was a decision that was made prior to Fisher's announcement. And then he actually went in his social media posts and lauded coach Fisher. So it's

56:35 gonna, yeah, you wanna get a jump. Somebody is

56:43 not going to be taking their team to a bowl this bowl season because they'll be the new hire. We don't know who that is, unless it's Dan Campbell from the Lions, but

56:54 he gets paid 60 days after

56:59 the termination day, he gets paid a 20, 25

57:06 of the remaining and then 120 days after it starts, kind of the eight years, seven or eight years of installments and equal amounts, so. And there's no offset. He goes and signs a new contract

57:20 tomorrow, there's no offset. So always I'm 'cause story more one down up bring gotta I, this end we before for some good growth.

57:28 Did y'all see this video of the guy taking her microwave? No. She's at this climate protest and they're finally starting to eat their own. This guy walks up and takes the microwave from her and

57:41 he's like, I came here for a climate activist, not a political activist and anyways, they start fighting over the microphone and good, it finally gets the microphone

57:51 back. And then they start chanting, which I still can't figure out what this chant means No climate justice on occupied land. I don't know what that actually means. She was invoking what's going

58:03 on in Palestine. Yeah, this is Gaza stuff. Yeah. She's been promoting Gaza. She was taking that. She was pro-Palestine and her remark. She was apparently making pro-Palestinian or pro-Hamas

58:15 comments, and then that's what triggered the - The guy to come up there. Yeah. The intervailation. But there's no climate justice on occupied land There's no link, there's no real link of it.

58:26 climate justice and the Palestinians, but she's connected those dots because it's

58:34 very similar overlaps of thinking and same people behind both sort of movements, if you will. Got you. Yeah. So anyway, seeing this dude, there we can finally do keep your politics for stay pure,

58:49 man. So what we didn't get to was volcanoes and earthquakes. Maybe that's next week. Next week. Well, we'll see what happens. Yeah, we'll see around the world. We already have the earthquakes.

58:59 Yeah. There might be more. All right. If y'all enjoyed this episode, appreciate you listening in. Make sure to tune in next week and share this one with a friend. I always appreciate when you

59:09 guys share it. It seems like we've been getting a lot of people that are starting to listen to it now. So maybe we're fine. They can chillies for the sponsorship. So the single greatest moment,

59:17 we were walking around Exxon and I took a bunch of steroids, a bunch of allergies medicine. So I told The young stirs walking us around and said, I'm going to need to get the bathroom a lot of

59:27 please don't want to hear any old guy prostate jokes. And someone turned and said, yeah, I thought it was Colin that had the prostate problem and Chuck's good on his face is the happiest that I've

59:36 ever seen. Chuck, give us a bite. So we will catch y'all next week. Cheers.