Big Digital Energy

0:00 We're actually rolling but tell us how the weather is I want to hear I mean it's meatier than a gulf coast refinery and crude shortage I mean Sun one minute fog the next it's like Milton Friedman's

0:13 goats is messing with My Vibe I don't understand it's Crazy I do like the sign in the back what does it say can you duck for a second and fireclay man ther vermont how do I get it stop following Me

0:30 I mean how could Harry I mean that would all that's all i'd Wanna do Yeah how could his Mommy Yeah

0:39 we have to totally address this right up front our favorite fan Vlad is very offended at Mark because Mark was a running smack about him in the last episode so we better address this or else flat will

0:54 never listen to US I couldn't find My Karl Rove Whiteboard and there was going to be BT he hearts flat our longest tenure most avid

1:07 fan where's lad from by the way where does he live say lives down in Richmond he is a Richmond Police officer he is Russian by background and a boy he texted us that this is a warning and cause mark

1:26 supposedly only wants to see Congressman Troy Nels when he shows up at Joseph's No say anything about sand vlad it it goes without saying that I always want to save Vlad first and foremost when I Walk

1:39 in the door at Joseph's However I was there on three consecutive days last week it did not see Vlad once but in the cant wait in the context of this misunderstanding it was in the midst of The ramp up

1:56 in the attacks on Iran and it's nuclear facilities and wanted to get fresh in -person perspective from a sitting member of Congress who we are fortunate enough to sometimes encounter a Joseph's that's

2:12 it so Vlad BD BD loves you it is unconditional and you are always our number one fan I'm Glad You're welcome in Nantucket so just ring me when I get out that old string and I can comment you're

2:31 welcome any time so the Reason I don't think we had and at Congressman nell's in the coffee shop last week is the big Beautiful Bill is in the throes of working it's way through the bowels that is

2:46 Congress So we've passed the house and now JD vance as the leader of the Senate cast the tie Breaking vote and the Big Beautiful Bill has passed and the Senate as well although with a lot of

3:04 differences Mark do you want to break down the differences or breakdown level set us what it did particularly with the Ira Yeah and it's you know it it is decidedly aggressive in terms of rollbacks

3:21 and wind and solar batteries are somewhat more lightly treated with very little with respect to geothermal nuclear other thermal energy or other thermal power sources so I don't have the the

3:39 accelerated provisions we were talking before we started recording chuck and something something in the Senate version of the bill the Amendment that was made and got her to change to a Yes vote

3:54 as a Murkowski was supposed to so Paul was the no Susan Collins was a no and what's his name from North Carolina where Iran boil rant now the North Carolina Guy and Facile around balls it was

4:12 announced Yeah He'd know he's a no Suzanne Paulson Oh Susan Collins was a no and then the North Carolina Senator Who's not running for reelection was a no Sir Murkowski was the one they had to to

4:25 change inch the original Senate bill said no dice just purely rolled back all of the tax credits etc on solar now it's kind of staged out here's a specific example as it relates to wind and solar the

4:42 I T C or PTC production tax credit

4:47 begin if construction begins in two thousand twenty five they get the full PTC from the R Ira that credit reduces to sixty per cent and twenty twenty six and twenty percent and twenty twenty seven and

5:01 fully eliminated by twenty twenty eight much longer runway but still a faster phase out than the twenty thirty two that was in the unadulterated version of of the bite administrations IRA Provisions

5:18 so I have no idea what is going on an Alaska that would cause her to change her position and vote yes for that bill because they stage those things out but she seemed to be the key one they worked on

5:34 they supposedly they floated to rand Paul if we got if we reduce the I O the the debt limit debt ceiling from five trillion to two trillion would you vote for it and he flirted around with saying yes

5:52 to that but Anyway the thing I Can't get and Kirk helped me with this is every time I talked to wind and solar people always say oH it's the cheapest stuff on the planet and then you go okay Great

6:04 let's get rid of the subsidies and they need think you're stealing their children I actually played Golf Yesterday with a Washington D C and fire and Man I Couldn't even talk about the subject because

6:19 you know they were so frustrated over the death of of climate change is basically had a position that and and it's a it's a challenge because the current argument has always been because oil and gas

6:37 gets a bunch of subsidies and so that styles the argument I heard Yesterday I kind of just got quiet because at the end of the day I just said let the market decide not some suit in D C tossing cash

6:52 like tee shots into a sand trap i I'd rather them subsidize my two Ernst Lincoln Stat so I Say you know what let the market decide but the the crow were all pro environment I think at the end of the

7:09 day but for those that are pro wind and solar it was definitely a blow and it's pretty better because of the subsidies well let's step back what are the subsidies in oil and gas because I mean at the

7:24 end of the day you you have intangible drilling costs the you can immediately depreciate but in my mind that's not a subsidy that's not giving a Check I'd be fine if every energy source under the sun

7:38 whatever they needed to build to provide that energy could immediately deduct that I've got no problems with that what what what's the subsidy mar Yeah I've wrestled with the same thing in terms of

7:53 I've always thought the I D C as you know a risk and senate you're risking capital and particularly as it relates to exploration we only we not only see it in in a while and gas I did a I think I've

8:07 talked about this before but when I first first launched on the MP group of you know two decades plus ago I compared things like the I D C's and up until twenty seventeen the pharmaceutical industry

8:23 had fully deductible R and D expenses in the year in which they occurred so that you know that type of of capital treatment tax treatment is far different than something Chuck I was going to bring the

8:41 last item on the run a show up to connect to or we're talking about here but that that's far different than than a a true subsidy

8:52 Yeah I think it's similar it's a similar tax breaks as many other manufacturers get in General I've researched this a few times and I really could not put my finger on the true subsidies that wind and

9:08 solar and other renewable energy sources are getting at this time so I'm having a hard time comparing apples and oranges which is meaning we need to have someone honest honest program maybe an

9:21 accountant or someone that actually studies this or noses like the back of their hand so let's make an an action item young and also awesome let's also included in the total net subsidies in effect

9:32 the oil and gas industry particularly in the US has been a arguably a net payer of subsidies to the American Consumer because we're sitting here with in real terms adjusted for inflation we're sitting

9:45 here with crude oil and product prices that are equivalent to more than twenty years ago and so you know eight million by a million barrels a day added to US production over fifteen years through the

9:59 miracle shale that's all translated not only to huge US benefit but also to the world

10:06 and and I mean i'll take it a step further if we're on federal lands were paying the federal government a royalty i mean them another business that does that I mean anyway we wish we should do this

10:22 because I think at the end of the day the answer back will be oil and gas has always gotten favorable tax treatment which have fair we've had a long streak of Texans as head of the ways and means

10:35 committee in DC and so Yes we have favorable treatment there but in terms of direct subsidies literally cutting checks that the industry is not getting that so Supposedly the Reason I look this up

10:52 Murkowski cared so much about solar and wind and and the like is because rural Alaskans need that and for Oscar tricity so that she got she got to have a whole host of payouts for Alaska in the bill

11:13 and she needed this as well I think if you went state by State Senator by Senator You're going to find something in the goodie bag for them and this is this is the crux of the kind of Resurgent Elon

11:29 Trump tension and that is you know Elon has been concerned that Elon has been consistent in his warnings all the way back well before the election as he started to get more involved in politics

11:45 related to the election and that was you know We're on one on a death March of insolvency as a country now that I'm in the Non Mag Conservatives are having a connection over this dominant spell so it

11:59 is just again it's a bunch of pork there's nothing new different administration same tactics and now the narrative if you've been listening here over the last few days has been you know the famously

12:14 secretary percent said you know eons great at rockets handle that I'll handle finance and so you start to hear about the kind of economic growth driver that this bill is going to constitute and work

12:31 were you know we do need to grow it to some degree out of this along with reduction in debt service costs etc but that's you know that's that's kind of a bet on the come in when you roll it all in

12:45 You've got whatever the Trillions of committed investment coming into the U S etc etc You're still you know You kind of show Me Don't Tell Me Show Me

12:56 and I think that's lost on you know certainly the hawks or they've they take it with a huge grain of salt because that is that that's ultimately somebody something that's highly unpredictable so that

13:15 the C B O is notoriously wrong and they use static assumptions I mean they they priced out when they put the luxury tax on yachts they priced out all this revenue that would come in and it turned out

13:30 everybody just moved their yacht down to the Caymans and we lost revenue so they don't do dynamic scoring and now that being said dynamic scoring would lead to be fraught with all kinds of assumptions

13:43 that would probably rival climate warming assumptions but I will say this I'd have felt a lot better if instead of spending some point three trillion when we spent seven troy trillion last year if we

14:01 could have found a way just to spent six and a half trillion you know at least make some dent into the spending and then go hey we'll get up we'll get the five point two trillion of revenue eventually

14:15 up to seven trillion because of growth I might have felt somewhat better on it but I mean at the end of the day I think I would have I I would have to vote for this bill if opposite my House and it

14:27 was coming back because we've kind of negotiated on a huge tax increase on the American economy would be really bad but man this just stinks totally agree

14:41 alright so oH so the see the exit question on this unless you had something to add Mark I think the exit question is what happens this is going back to the house does the house vote yes on this they

14:56 had you know two hundred and eighteen votes last time with massey being the one nay vote and they said don't change it too much and everything you hear from house members is you changed it too much so

15:08 does it pass are we resetting and sending smaller bills back for the rest of the Year I think it passes I think there's too much kind of carrot and stick that can be brought to bear but I think it

15:25 passes the this was kind of a one shot because of it drags on into twenty twenty six you know you have the the looming tax increases and none it I don't think any Republican member of the houses is

15:39 going to want to face going into a reelection year having presented their constituents with a pretty significant increase in federal income tax rates

15:53 said Kirk does it pass you'd think it passes say okay not but I mean yeah it probably does a Yeah I think it probably does so then I then I think it's going to pass too I think Trump's going to get on

16:08 the phone and just a the time negotiates over we've done it sorry it is what it is I wait first first time in history where we're not asked a poll question by chuck and told we're wrong and now

16:27 there's what there's one more question on this topic how does this change the it you Guys are are sitting on the board of various energy companies how does this change the discussion in the Boardroom

16:40 how does this change the industry Looking for does it change anything we're doing your Europe Mark now and I may be a little influenced by some of the PNP industry comments that were on the I guess

16:53 the latest fed survey in that there there's just too much volatility in in the economic landscape and if we think that you know there was one explicit comment I don't think it was referenced anyone

17:06 but there there's still a very strong inclination that Trump's after fifty dollar oil and drill drill baby drill is not you know from from that specific contacts drill baby drill is

17:23 at least as US industries concern not going to all of a sudden appear because we get this we get this bill passed

17:31 or economically the trump effect is real I see it up here I see it real estate people are sort of sitting on the sidelines trying to figure out you know What the fuck is happening so I did sitting in

17:47 Boardrooms they're probably also reading the realm of what's the economy doing there's our core business but are we making huge investment are we not men that's really hard because politicians change

17:59 every four years and and these guys are making twenty to thirty your mouths Yeah we have what half a million and growing surplus of listings Yeah Yeah how how housing the housing the potentially a big

18:17 huge bubble I think if you're New I think if you're an energy CEO Right Now You're A You're You're You're sitting there worried about nickels and dimes these days for the first time in your career

18:30 because you know the the twenty and thirty year bats drilling programs building pipelines and all that I mean what's your tariff going to be on the steel that you're putting in pipelines etc Yeah you

18:44 just don't have a clue so I think I think We're I Think We're We're we're kind of just sitting on our hands watching the one thing I will say that I think we've messed up on is in everybody's like Oh

18:58 Trump screwing us with low oil prices if you had any doubt that Trump was a low oil price Guy You're you're just mistaken cars are your misguided cause at the end of the day he's always been a low oil

19:12 price sky that's all he talked about and I think our problem is we didn't walk in with a wish list of hey we know we're going to get hit with fifty dollar oil but here the ten things we need we need

19:25 the Jones Act exempted from the energy business so we can you know shoot natural gas from Texas to Massachusetts we need royalty relief on federal lands we need permitting you know we need this that

19:41 there are probably smarter people than I am that could come up with ten or fifteen things but we should have had our wish list right there and potentially have gotten some of those codified in the big

19:52 beautiful bill if we could so it kind of it kind of feels like a little bit of a fail on our part well I think some of the anecdotes that you've seen and we can talk about from me as an example is

20:07 pretty high confidence that things like and this is executive order related that we're going to see a real streamlining and reform of the NRC as it relates to to nuclear right so there are things in

20:22 motion that people do believe the sustainable then until you erase the capital and actually break ground I think there's

20:33 a bit of inertia that remains because we don't know what the next day is going to bring I have either from a policy making standpoint or a legislative standpoint and in the in the kind of the shadow

20:46 that hangs all over this is is what are you what what is trade look like an impact so many things throughout the value chain of energy that

20:57 I don't see just a rush to commit to long cycle projects whether they're pipelines or you know multi -decade type deepwater developments alright we get south of the border to Mexico this was an

21:10 interesting item you You'd throw on here cause I hadn't thought of Mexico in years Yeah Mexico which is part of the critical heavy sour Feedstock imported into the US Gulf Coast because as you both

21:26 know

21:28 crude oil is not crude oil is not crude oil when it comes to refining economics and you know Venezuelan crude and My improved Mexico I have been you know important drivers of the follow on to what

21:44 happened in the early two thousands when there was a lot of retrofitting and on the Gulf coast refining complex to handle heavy sour Cantarell which came on in nineteen seventy nine as the big

21:54 Offshore field and

21:58 marked a pretty strong inflection of growth for Mexican production and we as of latest report Mexico is now back to that forty six year inflection point so we haven't seen this low of a level of

22:15 production in Mexico since nineteen seventy nine and with you know with things like keystone XL not getting built what are the substitutes will save Venezuela crude is not as reliable certainly not in

22:30 the quantities and that's you know that that creates a bit of a a tricky dilemma for for the refiners and for certainly for product pricing in the economics of refining what is what is their current

22:47 output I'm in Cantrell at its peak was what two million barrels a day Tenax is in debt which I mean let's go go figure what's happening there but the Gulf coast refineries are choking their dinner

22:59 they don't have enough inventory of this heavy crude while at the same time US production hit a record in April I mean talk about a crude tango that is all out of step it it's confusing Yeah we had to

23:15 we hosted of the second of the clyde community calls a day per Salon we were just talking about the overall global crude market landscape all the fundamental stuff all the you know all the

23:27 geopolitical tensions and

23:32 the the U S I Think and I just wrote a piece an excerpt from during an rose and swags second quarter letter you know really there's there's more and more voices reinforcing the notion that US

23:46 production from the growth driver of the shale is has plateaued and has headed the other way and so that that there was something I looked at Yesterday I think I attached it to things that were we're

23:57 going to send out with a with this podcast is that it was HF I said if you look at the high frequency data as it relates to crude production it tells a bit of a different story than than what the IAI

24:13 nine fourteen suggested

24:16 and I don't think the eyes has changed their view that you know we're going to average a little bit more than thirteen point four million barrels a day this year a little bit less next year which is

24:26 certainly not growth

24:29 year over year so I don't think structurally anything has changed so it's it's a bit of the the noise in the short term numbers particularly as it relates to the nine fourteen any idea that cap Acts

24:41 necessary or the re plumbing next necessary on the Gulf coast to have to deal with lower volumes of the heavy crude I my senses we've kind of done everything we can within reason so I don't know that

24:57 there's a quick fix sitting out there Yeah I mean refiners aren't going to get off the sidelines and into that of their own volition just because if you look at domestic markets I think you know us

25:12 Gasoline is going to kind of struggle along here at at it's current levels it's not certainly not a big growth story and then it becomes a question of you know competing for refined products in the

25:26 export market but making those I Guess reversal capital decisions to be able to handle more light sweet

25:38 i I Think I think overall for the industry that number is practically an impossibly high

25:46 Yeah I mean the history of the U S refiners is you add all the CEOS in the nineties and two thousands went on their expansion binges and M and a binges and all those guys wound up getting fired and

26:03 the CF foes or they retired and the CFS STEP forward and just were like no cap acts we're not going to spend a dollar a cap acts and xy don't know that we've truly seen

26:17 much in the way of cap acts really spent amuse certainly we've built out plastics and things like that but but the the gasoline not not not sure we've seen much in the way of adding to capacity there

26:32 are re plumbing it that was one of the things the the deo he called Digital Wildcatters actually in the middle of the coven shut down and said hey do you Guys we need to spend a lot of money do you

26:47 Guys have an idea of where to spend money and Jake Corley actually sat on the call hey why don't you or fix up all the refineries to handle the light sweet crude that the shell revolutions brought on

26:59 and Jake got told to jump in a lake

27:04 while as we speak after I saw the dewey this morning reported to a build finally in crude and Gasoline distillate still drawing and meanwhile crudes right now trading north of sixty seven

27:20 so the underlying regret the underlying I think fundamentals and given the demand revisions that have been part and parcel with the I A as put out over the course of the last few weeks and months the

27:34 whole missing barrels

27:38 The missing Barrels have essentially disappeared and it seems to work out and point to understated demand a pretty good handle on production levels and either a balanced or a tightening market and as

27:56 we always say watch inventories so we're operating at you know at or or well below depending on whether it's crude or products you know five year lows

28:09 and so the physicals forget about all the noise that's that's occurred in the sugar pill of of the bombing at least as as far as a crude price rally and and I think the that in the shape of the curve

28:23 you getting into pretty steep Contango early in the twenty six year in backwardation now but it's you know I'm kind of glass half full on the on the fundamentals that The Ultimately matter alright on

28:39 Rick Perry the former governor will you you agree with one of the one of the one of the principles and Yeah so Yeah so you know the way the world Omens Poker tournament works is when you get busted

28:55 out you go out and hang out by the swimming pool and you grab a cocktail and you know sunbathed so I was out there and I Griffin Perry was out there and we chatted for awhile and he kind of he kind of

29:08 laid the Saudis said Yam I'm Crazy but I'm trying to put a nuke in in Texas and We're building data centers and What's the what's the drug that his dad I began his ibogaine Yeah and we talked a lot

29:24 about ibogaine and and the potential benefits so you actually found the Article i remember kind of being in a bit of a tequila haze while I was in a we were chatting those and as far as I know it just

29:36 first made the the the news flow couple three days ago maybe over the weekend don't remember the data that could have broken a story and broken story it's it's you know I think the it's it's near

29:50 Amarillo it's either within or adjacent to Pentax about fifty just under fifty eight one hundred acres total power at full build -out plan to be eleven gigawatts for that being nuclear so you know for

30:08 Westinghouse really at least the way I think about our nuclear expert they always show the big cooling towers that we all remember from the seventies and eighties for Westinghouse nuclear units but

30:21 the interesting thing to me was a gigawatt of power online by the end of twenty twenty six which you know tells me there's A bunch of rapid deployment either of of simple cycle turbines to get things

30:38 started which aren't the most efficient and the lowest emitting technology I don't really know but i Gotta believe that there's maybe some solar and battery that that is already installed in that area

30:54 I'm not familiar with the Ricotta or the solar build out but I did notice in the article that they did say this is this is a behind the meter solution eighteen million square feet at full build out of

31:12 of a rack housing capacity so it's it's not trivial and I think if you look at a capital development costs somewhere i guess optimistically since nuclear is involve somewhere from one thousand to two

31:27 thousand dollars per megawatt he can at least contemplate what What kind of capital that we're talking about that that seems to be the big big unknown there wasn't there wasn't

31:41 any discussion of certainty I I I know the the one name that was mentioned was Griffin Perry's private equity firm grey rock

31:52 band and are they funny or is that just a conjecture was why why did I don't think there would be soul thunder but you know that that might be the strategically I have no idea what the what the

32:02 capital raising the profile of of the capital and how much of that would be eligible for things like do

32:10 you know are there co generation for

32:14 US military and in other facilities which thinking back to the the executive order really pointed at streamlining the NRC and ordering the D O D to look into citing nuclear on military bases in an

32:32 effort to get get the nuclear build out jump start on us and all those things seemed to be well lined up and at least from a timing standpoint a coincident standpoint with respect to what was what's

32:48 been announced it's called the Fermi hypergrid

32:54 so and kirk you probably know this stuff better than I do because I never played around with it but I mean don't you equity basically goes out and gets the permits done and that's that's the most

33:10 risky dollars cause you get to know you lose everything but it's not huge dollars it's lawyers it's environmental studies and stuff and then when you get your permits and you start building you wind

33:22 up I mean if you have off take agreements in place which it sounds like behind the meter they're going to have clients signed up using the staff I mean you get a ridiculous What seventy five percent

33:34 debt to to project costs something like that so it wouldn't be surprising surprising to me of financing is to come with various milestones were so where'd you get the per Megawatt calculation marker

33:51 what was that was an estimate that came from from Griffin just just generally you know playing around in the in the off grid gas fired generation solutions for AI data centers the the talk from people

34:06 in the you know in in the developer side has been generally around know thousand thousand per megawatt for simpler less efficient gas for our generation if you look at the nuclear history in the U S

34:20 compared to the rest of the world you know that that went hockey stick run in RC was formed but the French and the Indians are doing it somewhere around two thousand maybe a little north of there In

34:34 Unadjusted dollars so nuclear is likely going to be you know significantly more but if you take four of the eleven gigawatts are going to be nuclear and then assume you know something on the order and

34:47 certainly the purchasing power of of a project at large to get

34:55 to get gas turbines is probably probably going to come come in around that if we have any experts that can give us more insight or refute those just general cost assumptions then we'd we would we

35:09 would welcome those this sounds like Aggie Math to me and so I would say no Freeman's kind of let them down upon US right now going there these estimates don't even make sense no one mailed even come

35:23 close to some of these numbers so let's just wait and see just define the meter of course they're going to Go and try to offset this but in terms of the build out costs permitting time competitive

35:39 solutions obviously to see if this comes to fruition that this is thus just a direct capital replacement or replacement costs metric that that does not include all the things that we witness what was

35:53 the last nuclear example was the local facility that was ended up being four times what would warrant a trial and much much longer to to suggest that those realities are not going to come into play on

36:10 anything like this I listened to eleven Alyssa of Le Sue wait what well how much how they would do they say it is going to be eleven Gigawatts one Gigawatt which is forest going to be nuclear no big

36:23 Deal we'll just throw those on the side as if it's it's year twenty five percent of the project No Big Deal it's just nuclear nothing to see here I am Calling I Hey I Love Aggies They're Fun they're

36:38 fun to be in the SCC now and you know Hook 'Em horns let a Hey I'll root for that former Texas A and M Cheerleader I mean he's more raw raw that then then get done but Hey Let's UH let's Hope he does

36:53 yell leader both

36:56 what's the difference let's put let's put the invite out right now Griffin come on BT and chat about it We'd love to hear about this and you're at the plans are because I'd let you know cause what I

37:10 want a one what I wonder is you know is there something unique to Texas in terms of getting out of some sort of Federal Regulation I mean do you may not need FERC approvals on certain things being

37:26 behind the meter how much are you know do you need of I have this entity and that entity I'm sure there's some some steps that are unique to just Spain and Texas I think the mere fact that it is

37:39 either within or adjacent to the worlds are the country's largest nuclear weapons site defined as Pentax is you know there there's a little bit more familiarity at least and I AM glad you brought up

37:54 the ibogaine Thing Chuck I would recommend everyone go listen to Rogan Podcast that featured Governor Perry and I forget the the Kentucky Proponent but I saw an interview with the Governor Yesterday

38:12 talking about ibogaine and Texas has agreed to a fifty million dollar

38:20 clinical trial effort in Texas and so I you know there's some pretty interesting things around ibogaine and Addiction and severe brain injury and PTSD

38:35 and as as Governor Perry explains it in the podcast he said look I'm the last guy politically and given my entire long history in the military and the politics in the way I was raised I'm the last Guy

38:48 you would expect to

38:51 to be an advocate for you know what what right now as a schedule one I don't even know what it's called a psychedelic right Yeah no Yeah the Guy's name was Bryan Hubbard who was a from from Kentucky

39:08 and just a really thoughtful guy and supposedly the the results are real I mean this this is real data coming back and when you when you kind of hear the story of just how the Nixon Administration

39:23 arbitrarily put certain drugs and certain categories a scan kind of a shame that we haven't been doing research in Paris interest will start right after launch the Lone Survivor incident when Marcus

39:38 Luttrell was in really bad shape but from an addiction standpoint from a PTSD standpoint he actually loved with the governor and his wife for a number of years and did go down and received treatment

39:49 there's a forgot the name of it there's a facility in Mexico I think they treated over fifteen thousand now and basically the Governor's comment Yesterday was you know let let's make it so of the

40:03 people who are suffering that we can help the most don't don't have to go down to Mexico to get get this treatment that he said he said in his unexperienced have you seen many many cases of ibogaine

40:15 that it literally is a in for a lot of people as a one step treatment

40:21 Yeah

40:23 alright mark take us to the natural gas world what like Three weeks ago we're king of the Earth and all this and now we're back to Ah shit not natural gas again while there there were just a number of

40:37 sub -topics one was we had the first shipment from Western Canada Canada LNG added to South Korea I think it generally said Asian but I think most most people think that that is headed to South Korea

40:50 so things are moving on the Canadian front to get gas out so that was a that was a big win for them and just given all the

41:02 political skirmishes that they've had over the last several years I don't share it and put out a good piece of jumping around here talking about are caught and linked it back to this kind of rush of

41:17 in urquhart really being a willing recipient of Solar and wind developers to get in under the window of expiring investment tax credits in a power market or are is a power island there's little to no

41:33 original Interconnect we've got one hundred and seventy gigawatt of resource on the ground forty per cent reserve margin for peak demand that's been I think just under ninety gigawatts and so we

41:49 continue to really push you you know and and over preference because of these opportunistic behaviors is what Sheraton rights or at least what he implies and a lot of this he believes is you know I'M

42:04 going to go build my gas fired data Center somewhere Else Allah Meadow Room Louisiana but I'll be able to to purchase the tradeoffs on ercot from you know this accelerated an over abundance of If

42:21 solar and wind and essentially be able to claim that the facility is net zero in in you know in a in an area using the Louisiana example that sent me so that doesn't have near the wind and solar that

42:36 Arcot obviously does and so

42:41 you know at the same time what we've been doing by that and other things like this SB six we talked about a couple of weeks ago the kill switch legislation it really really subordinates natural gas

42:57 and committed capital within Arcot to the bigger natural gas developers and we talked about several weeks ago what would happen what kind of the an unraveling of of the Texas energy fund

43:11 the the GAs project commitments that that that they had so so cart park where you and the gas world you long gas short gas I'm sorry you Guys are building my outdoor shower which is right now the most

43:25 important thing in My New House here is I mean taking a shower outside I grew up in Galveston doing it but back then it was using lighter fluid to take out take the Tar off her body

43:39 but in this case it is just you know free willing outlet out God's great creation and seller right next to me but overall natural gas and long gas cars we have a lot of it is cheap it's cleaner than

43:55 than burning oil the challenges this is urquhart that has tried to be create a competitive market except OS and of course it'll have to be part of it of course you know when it comes to government

44:10 they do every one but in this case and trying to get more solar and wind developers in Texas

44:19 and that leaves the natural gas developers out to dry and so to me if I'm building a data center I'm going to be very weary of playing in irca because her car sort of playing this dangerous game of

44:34 trying to date different girls of the bar and each girl's Gonna be love you know left left hanging depending on sort of what's happening in the day or the time time year that to me is the is the story

44:49 here as what happens to the developers and those that are developing these gas assets which is baseload some of it's critical peak load but it's a lot more stable than wind and solar any day that's to

45:05 me the story So I I Love gas because of stability and I could also argue why gas is cleaner in some ways than wind and solar as well if you look at the entire Supply chain costs from uncertain to

45:19 destruction but that's another subject I wouldn't change my Girl I wouldn't change my Draft pick

45:27 as still as still go on my rent and have done this too much so I won't do a long one but fewer natural gas get out to Silicon valley go sit down with Google go sit down with Microsoft go sit down with

45:40 a ws and and preach the good word on gas to electricity

45:49 cause UH if if not as we see they're going to keep choosing nukes cause that's what they seem to do I don't think Texas misses out I just think it looks different just because there are so many

46:01 tailwinds in other areas like permitting and just just the mere real estate to do this development certainly as the number one gas producer

46:15 You're You're You're going to I think you're going to see significant detour or divergence into some pretty large scale off grid solutions and although chevron and exxon Haven't announced the the

46:29 location of those things I Gotta believe Texas is on the shortlist for their for their buying the meter mega -projects and particularly when you're getting twenty five cents and M if that from the

46:44 Permian so Yeah I mean or or whatever or hour or or phrase or free for a few months if you're up near La Yeah exactly exactly alright Kirk I love the Tan Oh go ahead Mark Gotta hit the Loan Loan

47:04 Program Office item but it's going to be stale

47:09 so what Thank Delay loan loan program Office so okay what's going on there Yeah we should have talked about it right after the first item in the one big beautiful bill but secretary right was on the

47:23 Hill I think he was in front of energy and commerce talking about what happened within the delays loan program office between election day twenty Twenty four in inauguration day there were ninety

47:37 three billion worth of approvals under the D O a L P O and forty two billion of that ninety three came literally in the last two days of the administration that forty two billion was more than the LPL

47:53 would approved in the prior decade and so you know all the due diligence and process around that you know I think a cynic would look at that and say we're you know We're we're trying to get as much as

48:07 we can committed because we know there going to be a lot of pressure to roll back Provisions of our flagship or signature legislation defined as the IRA and I look forward to

48:22 congressional hearings on what went down

48:27 over that period but putting up almost one hundred billion dollars over forty or seventy six day period is

48:35 you know I I think some of that is I'm shocked I'm shocked to find gambling here from Casa Blanca shocked Divine corruption Dodge Duck Sheridan Reins on Who's heavily involved in the bettering human

48:51 lives reported at Liberty have been all over this in really early days and I likened it to

49:01 know committed capital fun where the LP has no

49:06 you know

49:09 they're there they're just no There's no kind of standards of of diligence or return expectations and the US taxpayer being being the LP in this case Yeah no it's been a it's been amazing just what

49:27 they've seen you know from the election to the last day of the previous administration saw a lot of that stuff at the Pa Yeah as well and the secretary just a secretary right said you know and he set

49:41 it on other occasions shortly after his confirmation that you know that this was a a brewing thing and they're on it they're investigating an hour I dunno how much of that and that ninety three

49:53 billion is irreversible but it's it's a big number like some people are risk takers and I was wrong when I started investing and energy I realized I was Pretty Anti Idea we funding It actually turns

50:10 out that those hard tech companies would deal with the funding it's really critical no doubt as a hard tent if your energy tech guy that's doing hardtack you're insane anyway or or or Gal for that

50:25 matter but but taking any government money reminds me a lot of the Paycheck protection program the cares Act and some people will win because people are good at trotting and figuring out how to sneak

50:38 by but if you're law abiding moral person taking any government funding and on any level is a dangerous game you're playing and at any moment the government can turn around saying women don't like

50:51 what we did and we're going to blame you the taker for taking your money will hold you accountable I think that's the danger now as a taxpayers frequent bullshit the goal is getting my money than

51:03 anybody Else I mean that's the I Mean of Course we can have that debate over A couple cocktails but but that's the real challenge is by the way it's not the government's money it's our money and

51:16 anytime they start playing bad we get cylinder and a whole bunch of bullshit that's what this is really about when the administration changes they look back the previous administration start pointing

51:26 fingers if you are an entrepreneur he would be very careful that in the middle of that no exactly i Kirk I like the tan and you must be hitting the beach every day are you surfen I mean Vitamin D boys

51:41 I will say that it's if you're not getting enough vitamin d yourself you need to and because it's critical now on the other side I mean the gods is amazing I mean the Wind I'm working on My wind game

51:58 my to learn is actually starting to be a critical weapon but vineyard when those bastards that are building that When Pharma sure they're churning the ocean the way of Killing Mass We've had terrible

52:10 waves here I mean it's basically as useless as solar and a nor'easter but but it's not killing my mood so Super excited chicken chicken away his report in the daily basis sitting my my French press

52:27 coffee every morning and just you know hoping to see one of you guys show up dodging dodging the turban blades hopefully there's been no more that have fallen off honey or some vague teases self -love

52:41 in that water that people boats have run until like if that thing comes crashing onto me in a way that could impale somebody so that's not his legs last summer that was one blade and still washing up

52:55 it's crazy that shit is still lashing out hey all of you and you know environmentalists that had literally no Understanding of how the world works once you reach out to Us and tell us hey what do you

53:09 think about thou Apple the Boys Good Seeing you Guys I'm going to go while you're out surfing getting your vitamin d I'm going to go out and sell some software so Yeah good luck to you Glad Glad Glad

53:27 we Love You There the Boys We Got back we got back to Baghdad Hey if You liked the show be sure to share it leave nice comments with US and We'll Catch you Next time